Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[hex]

I don't even put Jay in the category of that Mafia rap era because he wasn't doin' that. I know how people get it confused because of the album cover, but mst of the stuff he was rappin' about had nothing to do with that. It was all about street-level hustle shyt, there wasn't any movie-like stories like Nas, Kool G or Rae were doin'. It was different from that, and that's what I think people mean when they say the album was misinterpreted at the time.

Neither do I but that was his argument, not mine. Not only did he put it into that category he tried to act like it was at the forefront of that style. Like it influenced people to rap like that.

Fred.

 

[DANJ!]

Neither do I but that was his argument, not mine. Not only did he put it into that category he tried to act like it was at the forefront of that style. Like it influenced people to rap like that.

Fred.

True, I think Jay was on a different side of the spectrum. I think he and BIG were more influential to the bottle-popping laidback hustler flow that came about in '96/'97.

 

[Tom Foolery]

method man said himself he stopped rapping like that cuz rae n ghost would make fun of him

lets not give nas credit for everything, C.r.e.a.m. officially set off that generation, can it be so simple? nas is just as influenced by wu as visa versa

Straight out of Ghosts mouth.

“I just love good music,” he explains. “Good music inspires me to write. If I hear a beat and it’s bangin’, I want to go grab a pen and a piece of paper. I could feel me catching lines in my head. Good music with ill beats or whatever it might be, somethin’ real funky, that inspires me to do what I do.”

Ghost continues, saying he hasn’t found too much inspiration from younger emcees today, so he relied on Younge’s production for Twelve Reasons. However, he did recall being influenced by Nas’s Illmatic when it was released in 1994.

“When I used to listen to Nas back in the days, it was like, ‘Oh shyt! He murdered that.’ That forced me to get my pen game up and like, ‘How can I try to catch it how this nikka’s catchin’ it?’ It’s just things like that. You know?”

When asked to elaborate, Ghost explained how much Illmatic meant to him and how much it influenced his rhymes on future projects.

“The whole fukkin’ Illmatic album! The whole Illmatic album forced you to go ahead and do shyt,” Ghostface added. “You know, you jump on [1995’s Only Built 4 Cuban Linx…] after, and you fukk around like, ‘Oh shyt!’ You just try to throw your darts around. It was inspiration. He dropped that second album [1996’s It Was Written]. That shyt was murder too…things of that nature.”

I don't give Nas credit for everything. I give Nas credit for creating the new standard of MCing.
CREAM and Can it be so simple already dropped, and Ghost still said he was influenced by Nas.

 

[Frump]

Jay was big in nyc and all over the radio during RD.

Can't speak for the rest of the country though

 

[spliz]

I don't even put Jay in the category of that Mafia rap era because he wasn't doin' that. I know how people get it confused because of the album cover, but mst of the stuff he was rappin' about had nothing to do with that. It was all about street-level hustle shyt, there wasn't any movie-like stories like Nas, Kool G or Rae were doin'. It was different from that, and that's what I think people mean when they say the album was misinterpreted at the time.

Bring It On was mafioso.

 

[DANJ!]

Bring It On was mafioso.

Nah... give me the Mafioso shyt... the Robert Deniro reference?

 

[spliz]

Nah... give me the Mafioso shyt... the Robert Deniro reference?

"Al Pacino down to Nino Brown, Me Jay and Primo, got it sewed across the board like Poquino.."

"Cause I heard Sammy The Bull, Lamps in Miami wit pull"

" Mannerisms, like a young Bobby Dinero,.."
"Your frequent stops to OTB, you feeding me.."

Come on son. Reference actors thats known play drug kingpins and mobsters. The OTB talk. The Sammy The Bull reference. On top of that it was supposed to be a Jay, Nas and AZ track. It was a mafioso track fam. shyt Nas' IWW is labeled a mafioso album and most of the songs have prolly less references than that.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Straight out of Ghosts mouth.



I don't give Nas credit for everything. I give Nas credit for creating the new standard of MCing.
CREAM and Can it be so simple already dropped, and Ghost still said he was influenced by Nas.

But he did nothing new,so why the credit?

 

[DANJ!]

"Al Pacino down to Nino Brown, Me Jay and Primo, got it sewed across the board like Poquino.."

"Cause I heard Sammy The Bull, Lamps in Miami wit pull"

" Mannerisms, like a young Bobby Dinero,.."
"Your frequent stops to OTB, you feeding me.."

Come on son. Reference actors thats known play drug kingpins and mobsters. The OTB talk. The Sammy The Bull reference. On top of that it was supposed to be a Jay, Nas and AZ track. It was a mafioso track fam. shyt Nas' IWW is labeled a mafioso album and most of the songs have prolly less references than that.

So they made a few references and it's a song about organized crime...

 

[spliz]

So they made a few references and it's a song about organized crime...

Bro the rhymes are mafioso themed. Lol. Like I said if u wanna nitpick like that than u can say the same for Nas' IWW cause most of the songs have either the same amount of references or even less.

 

[Stack Money]

I see I hit a nerve all the Nas stans/Jay haters came out the woodwork, I guess the truth hurts.

I don't know who wrote that shyt but Illmatic and Reasonable Doubt wasn't compared in real time. At all. Noone even thought to do that shyt especially being that it was 2 years after Illmatic. But those comparisons didn't happen until after the beef.

If Illmatic was as groundbreakin as yall sayin then it bein 2 years later wouldn't stop people from comparin Reasonable Doubt to it, Rakim was a 80s rapper but your fellow Nas stan is sayin errbody compared Nas to Rakim. I gave you links to who wrote it and some of them were known sources, you don't know who wrote the bullshyt IllmaticDelta posted either but you didn't jump up to say that when he dropped those quotes. RD was a classic from a new NY rapper just like Illmatic so people compared them joints back then, and it was a Mafioso rap album which was seen as the evolution of the gang wars/drug dealin that Nas rapped about on Illmatic. You just can't refute that comparisons were made so you gonna rewrite history and claim nobody said that back then.

none of these reviews are from 96....they are revisionist reviews after jayz became who he is now

Reasonable Doubt set the bar above gangster rap and transformed it into a Mafioso state, which included driving Lexus vehicles, making various references to gangster movies such as "Carlito's Way" and "Scarface," popping bottles of Crystal champagne


stop it

nas has more to do with the development/progression from Kool G Rap to the mid 90's the mafioso style than jayz

Nice try at movin the goalpost I notice whenever someone says Jay/RD was influential you just claim its revisionist history even tho multiple people said it was big where they were from and gave you sources that rappers switched the style up after it, like I said Biggie made a Mafioso rap album the next year and recruited Jay to be in his Commission after he heard RD even Nas himself mentioned that on Last Real nikka Alive where he said they all were influenced by each other.

"Big told me Rae was stealing my slang
And Rae told me out in Shaolin, Big would do the same thing
But I borrowed from both them nikkas
Jigga started to flow like us, but hit with "Ain't No nikka"
Had much Versace swagger Big admired the Brooklynite and took him in as Iceberg the rapper"

Your idol also sayin Ain't No nikka was a hit which disputes Jay not bein hot back then.

Makin Mafia references and rappin about movin like the Mafia suited up ridin in limos and poppin champagne is what Mafioso rap has been since the mid 90s and Jay was the first to do it wit that jazz sound, you act like Cuban Linx wasn't makin Mafia movie references some of them took actual movie names as their aliases (Biggie did the same thing) and used movie scenes as samples so YOU stop it.

We ain't talkin about progression from G rap to the mid 90s style we talkin the way the mid 90s style was and how all Mafioso rap til this day has that sound and Jay did it like that first, meanwhile you have the audacity to claim Nas has more to do wit the Mafioso style than Jay when Nas wasn't makin Mafioso shyt before IWW but your name is "IllmaticDelta" so of course you gon be blatantly biased.

those are some post-96 (probably 2000s) reviews that don't reflect the reality of that time period.

You dropped a Youtube video that was from 2012 yourself which you got called out on so quit goin "What he said doesn't count."

More than likely post 2000s. Them shyts was inaccurate as fukk. Prolly written by people who got into hip hop late.

It was completely accurate you Nas stans/Jay haters just don't wanna accept it.

@IllmaticDelta thank you. This fool actually linked a fukking school newspaper as proof of how influential "RD" was.

@Stack Money the reason I ignored what you said is because it's nonsense. G Rap pioneered mafia rap and Rae popularized it. I'm trying to avoid mentioning Nas because this thread has devolved into Nas stans vs Jay stans but Nas played a far bigger role in mafia rap than Jay-Z.

So stop trying to crow bar Jay into the convo with articles written 10 years after the fact. You notice we can quote rappers from that era, you can't. You came up in the 90's but gotta quote articles written in 2007, stop it.

And you quoting the XXL article is as fukk. You obviously never seen "Once Upon A Time In America". The OG version is damn near 4 hours long and very little of it is "the come up". He was comparing the brotherhood of the Wu and how they grew up together with the beginning of the movie. After that it's a mob flick same as "Goodfellas" or "Casino". Did you forget I run The Film Room as well?

Fred.

I linked actual credible music sources you just catchin feelins cause you don't like what they said, I never daid G Rap didn't pioneer it or Rae didn't make it popular I said Jay revolutionized it and made it what we know it as today. None of those other rappers includin Nas had the sound and content that Jay had and what everyone from Biggie to Ross has on Mafioso rap records, stop tryin to deny Jay's impact in this convo and whinin about articles bein "after the fact" like you ain't one of the main culprits in here tryna rewrite history. I just grabbed those articles right quick to back up what I said wit actual reviews, now you upset stans are cryin "IT HAS TO BE AN ARTICLE FROM 96 OR IT DOESN'T COUNT!" and a couple of those articles has no date so you don't know when it was written you just assumin its from 07 to fit your narrative. I also just quoted a Nas song (who is a rapper from that era) sayin the same shyt I said, stop it.

And you bytchin about the XXL article is dumb as fukk since they just quotin what Raekwon himself said dikkhead, HE is the one that mentioned Once Upon A Time In America and said he liked how they grew from the ground up and started wit nothin that was HIS ACTUAL QUOTE I didn't say that so accordin to you he must've never seen that movie. I just copied and pasted his quote to show what his influence was which like I said he was more focused on the come up, I don't give a fukk what you run I don't know who you are bytch you talkin like you some important person no one cares about you bein a movie buff I just quoted your ignorant ass post and corrected you.

I don't even put Jay in the category of that Mafia rap era because he wasn't doin' that. I know how people get it confused because of the album cover, but mst of the stuff he was rappin' about had nothing to do with that. It was all about street-level hustle shyt, there wasn't any movie-like stories like Nas, Kool G or Rae were doin'. It was different from that, and that's what I think people mean when they say the album was misinterpreted at the time.

Its not just the cover the shyt he rappin about is Mafia shyt he talks about sellin drugs and big spendin which he implyin is from bein a boss (Jay himself claims he sold a kilo a week makin a ton of money), thats what everyone in the genre has made their content since either sellin drugs or blowin drug money on rich nikka shyt.

Neither do I but that was his argument, not mine. Not only did he put it into that category he tried to act like it was at the forefront of that style. Like it influenced people to rap like that.

Fred.

Of course you don't put him in the category you a hater, but Jay clearly influenced Biggie otherwise he wouldn't have created The Commission and put Jay in the group after hearin that album.

True, I think Jay was on a different side of the spectrum. I think he and BIG were more influential to the bottle-popping laidback hustler flow that came about in '96/'97.

That bottle poppin hustler shyt is tied in wit Mafia shyt on some cats albums, either way his album sounds more "Mafioso" then some of these other cats cause of him rappin about actually havin money from the lifestyle and the Jazz samples while before then it was all street soundin even tho Rae made Mafia references wit the names and shyt he was really just talkin bout bein a street level drug dealer.

So they made a few references and it's a song about organized crime...

That describes Cuban Linx and Wu-Gambinos too, he made Mafia references which is why cats call it Mafioso rap even tho he was mostly on some neighborhood D boy shyt.

 

[ZEB WALTON]

Straight out of Ghosts mouth.



I don't give Nas credit for everything. I give Nas credit for creating the new standard of MCing.
CREAM and Can it be so simple already dropped, and Ghost still said he was influenced by Nas.

They are influenced by nas.

My ooint is your saying meth changed his style cuz of nas. Meth changed his style cuz rae n ghost made fun if the dr seuess shyt.

Ghost def was more influenced as his rhynes stepped up big time. I didnt say nas dudnt influence people, but these guys were rhyming the way they wete rhyming pre nas. N nas just as infkuenced by wu as visca versa

 

[mobbinfms]

So stop trying to crow bar Jay into the convo with articles written 10 years after the fact. You notice we can quote rappers from that era, you can't. You came up in the 90's but gotta quote articles written in 2007, stop it.

At least @Stack Money isnt quoting from that INCEST APPRECIATION GROUP he started on the Coli

 

[Still Benefited]

I see I hit a nerve all the Nas stans/Jay haters came out the woodwork, I guess the truth hurts.


If Illmatic was as groundbreakin as yall sayin then it bein 2 years later wouldn't stop people from comparin Reasonable Doubt to it, Rakim was a 80s rapper but your fellow Nas stan is sayin errbody compared Nas to Rakim. I gave you links to who wrote it and some of them were known sources, you don't know who wrote the bullshyt IllmaticDelta posted either but you didn't jump up to say that when he dropped those quotes. RD was a classic from a new NY rapper just like Illmatic so people compared them joints back then, and it was a Mafioso rap album which was seen as the evolution of the gang wars/drug dealin that Nas rapped about on Illmatic. You just can't refute that comparisons were made so you gonna rewrite history and claim nobody said that back then.


Nice try at movin the goalpost I notice whenever someone says Jay/RD was influential you just claim its revisionist history even tho multiple people said it was big where they were from and gave you sources that rappers switched the style up after it, like I said Biggie made a Mafioso rap album the next year and recruited Jay to be in his Commission after he heard RD even Nas himself mentioned that on Last Real nikka Alive where he said they all were influenced by each other.

"Big told me Rae was stealing my slang
And Rae told me out in Shaolin, Big would do the same thing
But I borrowed from both them nikkas
Jigga started to flow like us, but hit with "Ain't No nikka"
Had much Versace swagger Big admired the Brooklynite and took him in as Iceberg the rapper"

Your idol also sayin Ain't No nikka was a hit which disputes Jay not bein hot back then.

Makin Mafia references and rappin about movin like the Mafia suited up ridin in limos and poppin champagne is what Mafioso rap has been since the mid 90s and Jay was the first to do it wit that jazz sound, you act like Cuban Linx wasn't makin Mafia movie references some of them took actual movie names as their aliases (Biggie did the same thing) and used movie scenes as samples so YOU stop it.

We ain't talkin about progression from G rap to the mid 90s style we talkin the way the mid 90s style was and how all Mafioso rap til this day has that sound and Jay did it like that first, meanwhile you have the audacity to claim Nas has more to do wit the Mafioso style than Jay when Nas wasn't makin Mafioso shyt before IWW but your name is "IllmaticDelta" so of course you gon be blatantly biased.


You dropped a Youtube video that was from 2012 yourself which you got called out on so quit goin "What he said doesn't count."


It was completely accurate you Nas stans/Jay haters just don't wanna accept it.


I linked actual credible music sources you just catchin feelins cause you don't like what they said, I never daid G Rap didn't pioneer it or Rae didn't make it popular I said Jay revolutionized it and made it what we know it as today. None of those other rappers includin Nas had the sound and content that Jay had and what everyone from Biggie to Ross has on Mafioso rap records, stop tryin to deny Jay's impact in this convo and whinin about articles bein "after the fact" like you ain't one of the main culprits in here tryna rewrite history. I just grabbed those articles right quick to back up what I said wit actual reviews, now you upset stans are cryin "IT HAS TO BE AN ARTICLE FROM 96 OR IT DOESN'T COUNT!" and a couple of those articles has no date so you don't know when it was written you just assumin its from 07 to fit your narrative. I also just quoted a Nas song (who is a rapper from that era) sayin the same shyt I said, stop it.

And you bytchin about the XXL article is dumb as fukk since they just quotin what Raekwon himself said dikkhead, HE is the one that mentioned Once Upon A Time In America and said he liked how they grew from the ground up and started wit nothin that was HIS ACTUAL QUOTE I didn't say that so accordin to you he must've never seen that movie. I just copied and pasted his quote to show what his influence was which like I said he was more focused on the come up, I don't give a fukk what you run I don't know who you are bytch you talkin like you some important person no one cares about you bein a movie buff I just quoted your ignorant ass post and corrected you.


Its not just the cover the shyt he rappin about is Mafia shyt he talks about sellin drugs and big spendin which he implyin is from bein a boss (Jay himself claims he sold a kilo a week makin a ton of money), thats what everyone in the genre has made their content since either sellin drugs or blowin drug money on rich nikka shyt.


Of course you don't put him in the category you a hater, but Jay clearly influenced Biggie otherwise he wouldn't have created The Commission and put Jay in the group after hearin that album.


That bottle poppin hustler shyt is tied in wit Mafia shyt on some cats albums, either way his album sounds more "Mafioso" then some of these other cats cause of him rappin about actually havin money from the lifestyle and the Jazz samples while before then it was all street soundin even tho Rae made Mafia references wit the names and shyt he was really just talkin bout bein a street level drug dealer.


That describes Cuban Linx and Wu-Gambinos too, he made Mafia references which is why cats call it Mafioso rap even tho he was mostly on some neighborhood D boy shyt.

They say Illmatic had influence because it made rappers wanna rap better as if every great rapper didnt inspire other rappers to "step they pen game up"

If its a matter of inspiring nikkas in your proffession,just looknat how Jay inspired drug dealers

Convicts Talk About Why Jay Z's 'Reasonable Doubt' Is Still Every Hustler's Favorite Album - VICE

and we all know Jayz wasnt a rapper but in fact a hustler....it was more people selling drugs then it was nikkas stepping they pen game up....so by they own definition of impact they cant deny RD anymore,they dug they own grave....i notice folks skated by @Big Mel noting that every drug dealer had the album as if that was irrelevent....based on what yall think impact is,RD made a impact too.

Lets just say it had its own special little impact like illmatic did.

This means E-40 In A Major Way was clearly more impactful then both these albums....but i already knew that

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I had the Illmatic on bootleg
The shyt was so ahead, thought we was all dead

Jayz

"name a rapper that I ain't influence"