How the iPhone is so popular is beyond me...

[Golayitdown]

Music production apps are a main reason i went back to iphone(from galaxy s5)
Emulators utorrent and the file system is dope for andriod, messaging (gifs) are better on iphone.

I wish WP8 would have stepped up and hit the happy medium between Android's openness and Apple's consistency and structure. They had a good concept but they just started too late.

 

[O.G.B]

The bolded is only partially correcy. The reason iOS seems faster/better to users is because the actual operating system was designed hand in hand with the hardware.

This is utter nonsense my friend. Apple doesn't design or produce it's own hardware, so the iPhone's optimization based on the unison of software & hardware isn't a determining factor on it's overall performance when compared to high end Android models. iPhones perform better overall with less powerful hardware simply because there is no extra carrier bloatware, it has a NAND drive which gives it far higher sequential read and write speeds along with the fact that Apple apps don't use Java like Android phones do. Also smart phone leaders like Samsung have better overall optimization with their Galaxy S lineup as most of the hardware components (screen, processor, camera module, etc) are developed & manufactured in house directly by Samsung.

As for rooting, it usually gives you a whole bunch of dope features, but is prone to open a whole different set of problems. Yes, you get timely updates, but if you aren't on Cyanogen or one of the more popular and organized groups of modders with stable ROMs, you can quickly run into a bunch of glitchy ass ROMs that are continuously being developed. Most of the time anything more than a stock rooted ROM that allows you to remove bloat is signing up for a whole set of hands on management of your device.

Many of these point are invalid, as rooting the handset has nothing specifically to do with changing ROM's, which is a complete different circumstance all together. Rooting the phone just gives the owner full administrative access to control all of the operating system, thus in regards to what we're specifically discussing, is completely removing all carrier bloatware from the original stock OS that actually increases the overall performance of the phone (better battery life, less heat radiation, prevention of apps freezing. less file corruptions, etc) as opposed to hindering it.

As for your last part, I agree but it doesn't start with Samsung. Until very recently (around the time the S6 dropped), they were still a terrible offender. Google should be the one to eliminate carrier bloatware and needless manufacturer customization. They can do it too since they regulate who can use Google Play Services. ALL carrier bloat should be fully uninstallable through the play store and reduced to useful things like carrier specific account apps (like MyATT). Some manufacturers stuff is great, but do we really need manufacturer stuff that replicates core features, custom (as in completely rearranged) settings and all kinds of random shyt that has to be regression tested between each Google update? (which adds months of carrier + manufacturer testing before most phones get updates).

Eliminating carrier bloatware completely from Android smart phones has to start with Samsung specifically because they're are the largest cellular phone manufacturer in the world & they have the power & prestige other smaller Android smart phones brands don't to make carriers comply to their demands. And Google only provides the basic open source platform for other smartphone companies to utilize, so outside of Google's own exclusive Nexus smartphones, they have no control over forcing carriers to eliminate bloatware from other manufacturers handsets nor are they concerned with preventing Android manufacturers from customizing specific unique features/apps into Android to differentiate handsets from other brands.

 

[Golayitdown]

This is utter nonsense my friend. Apple doesn't design or produce it's own hardware, so the iPhone's optimization based on the unison of software & hardware isn't a determining factor on it's overall performance when compared to high end Android models. iPhones perform better overall with less powerful hardware simply because there is no extra carrier bloatware, it has a NAND drive which gives it far higher sequential read and write speeds along with the fact that Apple apps don't use Java like Android phones do. Also smart phone leaders like Samsung have better overall optimization with their Galaxy S lineup as most of the hardware components (screen, processor, camera module, etc) are developed & manufactured in house directly by Samsung.

Design != production. I never said Apple produces the hardware. You can design software to specific hardware specifications without physically producing the device. The closer you can get to the hardware when designing software, the better software you can *potentially* design. Having to have a one size fits all OS that covers all bases is anything but helpful.

Unless you're thinking of phones from 4-5 years ago, carrier bloatware has little to nothing to do with the performance difference between Android devices and iPhones. You'd have to go into the operating system level of how Apple handles everything from user touches to multitasking to get a full understanding of how very different the software design philosophies are for both products. If the bloat was the determining factor, there would be no reason previous generation iPhones could keep up with the top of the line Android phones with half (or a third) of the RAM and weaker GPUs and experience less of the slowdown after the honeymoon phase is over like Android devices tend to. The code itself has a lot to do with it. Not saying one is better than the other at all (because they have completely different use cases), but the difference in paradigms definitely plays into the efficiency of the OS.

Many of these point are invalid, as rooting the handset has nothing specifically to do with changing ROM's, which is a complete different circumstance all together. Rooting the phone just gives the owner full administrative access to control all of the operating system, thus in regards to what we're specifically discussing, is completely removing all carrier bloatware from the original stock OS that actually increases the overall performance of the phone (better battery life, less heat radiation, prevention of apps freezing. less file corruptions, etc) as opposed to hindering it.

Reread my quote homie. You're getting into straw man territory based on your assumptions of what I said. Even in my post you quoted I noted that the issues are incurred if you install custom ROMs instead of simply using a rooted stock ROM with said bloatware removed. Furthermore, most of your other performance notes are based on an assumption that all bloatware you remove gives you all of those benefits. A lot of the bloatware (duplicate internet browsers, health apps, etc.) won't give you much if any performance increase over simply disabling the app itself. The real benefit is the storage space gained. The reason I even brought up roaming is because once you remove carrier bloat and free up space, you can get even more performance (including speed and battery life) with some of the better ROMs/custom kernels out there.

Eliminating carrier bloatware completely from Android smart phones has to start with Samsung specifically because they're are the largest cellular phone manufacturer in the world & they have the power & prestige other smaller Android smart phones brands don't to make carriers comply to their demands. And Google only provides the basic open source platform for other smartphone companies to utilize, so they have no control over forcing carriers to eliminate bloatware nor are they concerned with preventing Android manufacturers from customizing specific unique features/apps into Android to differentiate handsets from other brands.

The bolded is completely incorrect. Android as the masses know it is Google Android not AOSP (Android Open Source Platform) Android. It's NOT the open source version of Android. All of the things that makes it commercial and marketable is proprietary and owned by Google. They have the power because they already make manufacturers meet certain criteria to license and use the Google version of Android. Manufacturers don't want to lose that licensing because the real marketability of Android is the ubiquity of the apps. Losing the rights to Google Play Services (including the Play Store's wide app selection) renders a phone useless for most folks and reduces a phone's marketability by a whole lot. If you don't believe me, go to XDA and get an AOSP Rom with no Gmail, Play Store and Music and tell me how long it takes you to either flash the Play Services add on or flash another ROM . Each manufacturer that doesn't rock with Google will have to pull an Amazon and get their own app store and services to replace it. It's a lot of extra work when Google already has the template laid out.

I do agree that it wouldn't hurt to have Samsung at the forefront, but unless they petition for ALL manufacturers (which makes no sense from a competitive standpoint), you still have LG, Asus, HTC, and a gang of other Android phone manufacturers that will have to do the same thing. There's no incentive in Samsung making such a move when they still customize Android, delay updates and add additional unnecessary apps to their devices. They'd have to change their operating procedures internally before doing anything. If Google mandates it, it covers all manufacturers who use Google Android. Obviously this isn't their MO (they rightfully don't give a fukk what you do as long as you give them search and app revenue) but in a perfect world you would fix the root cause of the problem, not the symptom.

 

[O.G.B]

Design != production. I never said Apple produces the hardware. You can design software to specific hardware specifications without physically producing the device. The closer you can get to the hardware when designing software, the better software you can *potentially* design. Having to have a one size fits all OS that covers all bases is anything but helpful.

Samsung does this better than anyone including Apple, so your point is invalid & moot because none of what you wrote above has do with or is why the iPhones better short/long term overall performance (in some cases) or exceptional benchmark test results which in certain instances favor the iPhone over it's high end Android competitors.

Unless you're thinking of phones from 4-5 years ago, carrier bloatware has little to nothing to do with the performance difference between Android devices and iPhones. You'd have to go into the operating system level of how Apple handles everything from user touches to multitasking to get a full understanding of how very different the software design philosophies are for both products. If the bloat was the determining factor, there would be no reason previous generation iPhones could keep up with the top of the line Android phones with half (or a third) of the RAM and weaker GPUs and experience less of the slowdown after the honeymoon phase is over like Android devices tend to. The code itself has a lot to do with it. Not saying one is better than the other at all (because they have completely different use cases), but the difference in paradigms definitely plays into the efficiency of the OS.

Reading comprehension is a must because you conveniently skipped over that I already plainly stated iPhones ALSO perform better with less powerful hardware due to the fact Apple doesn't utilize Java for it's apps & the iPhone has a NAND drive which provides the iPhone with much quicker read & write speeds. Furthermore Apple uses LCD screens vs OLED like most high end Android branded phones, so iPhones use less of the overall processor power & maintain better battery life. However to deny the lack of additional carrier software on IPhones doesn't allow them to run much smoother with less lag vs top spec Android models riddled with extra, unnecessary bloatware shows your lack of knowledge of how an OS file system works in conjunction with applications & the phones hardware.

Reread my quote homie. You're getting into straw man territory based on your assumptions of what I said. Even in my post you quoted I noted that the issues are incurred if you install custom ROMs instead of simply using a rooted stock ROM with said bloatware removed. Furthermore, most of your other performance notes are based on an assumption that all bloatware you remove gives you all of those benefits. A lot of the bloatware (duplicate internet browsers, health apps, etc.) won't give you much if any performance increase over simply disabling the app itself. The real benefit is the storage space gained. The reason I even brought up roaming is because once you remove carrier bloat and free up space, you can get even more performance (including speed and battery life) with some of the better ROMs/custom kernels out there.

More garbage rants with little knowledge of how an OS runs. Disabling the app doesn't prevent some apps from running again in the background (as all your doing in some cases is just putting many of the disabled apps in a temp sleep mode) or starting up again once the phone is rebooted, nor does disabling apps delete them completely off the file system.

Additionally, the real benefit isn't just the storage space gained from eradicating the apps from the OS, as the more free space you have in your phone's internal memory, the faster your phone also can write to the disk. Thus your premise that removing a lot of the bloatware "won't give much if any performance increase over simply disabling the app itself" is absolutely FALSE & INACCURATE.

The bolded is completely incorrect. Android as the masses know it is Google Android not AOSP (Android Open Source Platform) Android. It's NOT the open source version of Android.

Again, INCORRECT!


"A stock ROM is the ROM that comes with a device; the device is "stocked" with that ROM by the manufacturer. Android is generally customized by the manufacturer to some degree; at minimum there needs to be device-specific drivers and so on for Android to work on a particular device. As Flow notes, customizations may include a custom theme, launcher, and default apps like HTC Sense does.

An AOSP ROM is a ROM based on the Android Open Source Project. In the purest sense, AOSP refers to unmodified ROMs or code from Google. The name is often co-opted for custom ROMs that are very close to the original AOSP, since these ROMs still need to be customized; for example, I can't download/compile the Android source code and run it on my Samsung Vibrant without doing a whole lot of customizations. The name is often abused to refer to ROMs that don't have a custom launcher or many of the other modifications carriers make with Sense, TouchWiz, Motoblur et al., although they may still be themed. A more accurate name for plain, mostly-unaltered ROMs for non-Google devices is probably "vanilla ROMs".

Techncially, stock ROMs are all AOSP ROMs apart from the versions of Android that haven't been released yet.

To further add to the confusion, a "custom ROM" does not refer to customized ROMs in general. That term specifically refers to ROMs that have been customized by third parties (i.e., not the manufacturers or carriers). For example, I'm running a custom ROM that is just a re-themed and tweaked stock ROM. CyanogenMod is another example, and it has many features built from the ground up rather than mere tweaks. Most AOSP ROMs you'll find for a specific device are stock ROMs that have been customized to remove some of the manufacturer/carrier tweaks and make them closer to the pure AOSP experience."

What's the difference between an AOSP ROM and a stock ROM?


"Generally, most people use the term stock ROM to mean the manufacturer's ROM that came with their device (possibly including any OTA updates). As t0mm13b points out, this ROM almost certainly wasn't built from AOSP: the source will be based on AOSP (or Google's internal sources, if the manufacturer is big enough to have access to them), but it will include any drivers for that device, as well as the manufacturer's customizations such as Samsung's TouchWiz or HTC's Sense"

What is the difference between AOSP and AOKP?


Android A to Z: What is the AOSP?

"AOSP is a term you'll see used a lot -- here, as well as at other Android-centric sites on the Internet. I'll admit I'm guilty of using it and just expecting everyone to know what I'm talking about, and I shouldn't. To rectify that, at least a little bit, I'll try to explain what the AOSP is now so we're all on the same page.

For some of us -- the nerdly types who build software -- the full name tells us what we need to know. AOSP stands for Android Open Source Project. The AOSP was designed and written by folks who had a vision that the world needed an open-source platform that exists for developers to easily build mobile applications. It wasn't designed to beat any other platform in market share, or to fight for user freedom from tyrannical CEOs -- it exists as a delivery mechanism for mobile apps -- likeGoogle's mobile apps, or any of the 400,000+ in the Google Play store. Luckily, Google realized that using open-source software would ensure that this operating system/mobile application content delivery system is available for all, for free. And by choosing the licensing they did, it's also attractive to device manufacturers who can use it as a base to build their own mobile OS.

The premise plays out rather nicely. Google writes and maintains a tree of all the Android source code -- the AOSP. It's made available for everyone (you, me, manufacturers you've never heard of and not just big players like Samsung or HTC) to download, modify, and take ownership of. This means the folks at CyanogenMod can add cool stuff like audio profiles. It also means folks like HTC can change multitasking in ways that many of us don't like. You can't have one without having the other. The big players then use their modified version of this source to build their own operating system. Some, like Amazon, radically changed everything without a care to use Google's official applications and keep their device in compliance with Android guidelines. Some, like HTC radically changed everything yet followed the Android Compatibility Program (ACP) so they could include Google's core application suite -- including the Google Play store. Some, like the folks at CyanogenMod, enhance the pure AOSP code with additions but don't change the overall look and feel. Again -- that's how this open-source thing works. You can't have it without allowing folks to change it as they see fit, for better or worse."

Android A to Z: What is the AOSP?

I do agree that it wouldn't hurt to have Samsung at the forefront, but unless they petition for ALL manufacturers (which makes no sense from a competitive standpoint), you still have LG, Asus, HTC, and a gang of other Android phone manufacturers that will have to do the same thing. There's no incentive in Samsung making such a move when they still customize Android, delay updates and add additional unnecessary apps to their devices. They'd have to change their operating procedures internally before doing anything. If Google mandates it, it covers all manufacturers who use Google Android.

Incorrect! Outside of specific Google Nexus phones, Google can't force the carriers to do anything in regards to bloatware because the carrier bloatware is installed on the final end product by the carrier itself & not the smartphone manufacturers. And Samsung's own proprietary apps or specific software programs have nothing to do with the original topic, as we aren't discussing customization on the manufacturers level, just the additional bloatware added from carriers.

Furthermore, for future reference, if you're going to have a debate about the inner workings of smart phones & the industry itself, I would suggest at least having a full understanding & factual information of what it is you're discussing. Sadly, most of this long winded, incoherent, gobbledy gook you wrote makes absolutely no sense or is completely flawed from a technical standpoint.

 

[Scott Larock]

Most uniformed people don't realize that the only reason Apple's iOS seems superior & performs smoother/faster over time with less issues is because unlike Apple, major Android based smart phone manufacturers allow the carriers to add a large amount of additional, unremovable bloatware crap to handsets which limits some of the phones additional storage capabilities, ultimately eats up the ram & eventually slows down the phone.

This is why those who root Android handsets to remove all the carrier junk (along with additional apps which won't be utilized from the manufacturer) don't have long term issues with their phones being "glitchy" or handicapped performance wise.

That being said, large companies with a substantial foothold in the smartphone market like Samsung should stop this practice (as Apple has from the start), which would greatly improve the overall performance of their handsets.

Do you having a SD drove also in a sense uses resources than can slow a phone down? People say nexuses are the fastest android phones and they usually have lesser specs than the big shots like Samsung and LG.

So with no carrier bloat as well as no external drive ypu think thsts most the reason nexuses perform a little better than carrier phones?

I have a 5x and it's faster than my old g4 and m9.

With much lesser specs.

 

[Golayitdown]

.......

First you said the carrier bloat was the linchpin that differentiates the performance between Android and iOS and now it's the software (Objective C vs. Java and the JVM) which lends credence to what I was saying about going into the differences between the OSes and their design philosophy and decisions to get the true answer.

The long ass AOSP article you copy/pasted states exactly what I said about manufacturers having to meet criteria to license Google's Android (which includes Google code updates on top of AOSP Android and Play Services) unless they want to develop their own replacement for Play Services on top of AOSP Android.

I'll go ahead and take a bow out of this conversation. I love discussing tech, but I see you're arguing just to argue and insult instead of actually discussing (or even reading) what I'm saying. Have a good day homie.

 

[Golayitdown]

Do you having a SD drove also in a sense uses resources than can slow a phone down? People say nexuses are the fastest android phones and they usually have lesser specs than the big shots like Samsung and LG.

So with no carrier bloat as well as no external drive ypu think thsts most the reason nexuses perform a little better than carrier phones?

I have a 5x and it's faster than my old g4 and m9.

With much lesser specs.

It's really a combination of a bunch of factors. I've had a lot of Nexus phones and I never felt like they were necessarily faster than the flagships from the big boys, but they met the happy balance between speed, price and timely updates. Like you said, the carrier bloat + device manufacturer's changes and customizations to the OS have to be taken into account as well too. Most of the stock Nexus devices feel so much lighter and snappier because there's a lot less carrier and manufacturer stuff running in the background too.

 

[Golayitdown]

Delete

 

[el_oh_el]

This is utter nonsense my friend. Apple doesn't design or produce it's own hardware, so the iPhone's optimization based on the unison of software & hardware isn't a determining factor on it's overall performance when compared to high end Android models. iPhones perform better overall with less powerful hardware simply because there is no extra carrier bloatware, it has a NAND drive which gives it far higher sequential read and write speeds along with the fact that Apple apps don't use Java like Android phones do. Also smart phone leaders like Samsung have better overall optimization with their Galaxy S lineup as most of the hardware components (screen, processor, camera module, etc) are developed & manufactured in house directly by Samsung.




Many of these point are invalid, as rooting the handset has nothing specifically to do with changing ROM's, which is a complete different circumstance all together. Rooting the phone just gives the owner full administrative access to control all of the operating system, thus in regards to what we're specifically discussing, is completely removing all carrier bloatware from the original stock OS that actually increases the overall performance of the phone (better battery life, less heat radiation, prevention of apps freezing. less file corruptions, etc) as opposed to hindering it.



Eliminating carrier bloatware completely from Android smart phones has to start with Samsung specifically because they're are the largest cellular phone manufacturer in the world & they have the power & prestige other smaller Android smart phones brands don't to make carriers comply to their demands. And Google only provides the basic open source platform for other smartphone companies to utilize, so outside of Google's own exclusive Nexus smartphones, they have no control over forcing carriers to eliminate bloatware from other manufacturers handsets nor are they concerned with preventing Android manufacturers from customizing specific unique features/apps into Android to differentiate handsets from other brands.

Most the technology related text in this reply is bullshyt
You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to hardware

Stop spreading incorrect bullshyt to the brehs, breh

 

[Golayitdown]

Most the technology related text in this reply is bullshyt
You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to hardware

Stop spreading incorrect bullshyt to the brehs, breh

It's ridiculous man. I thought I was having a cool discussion but I started reading it like :maxwell: and figured my time would be spent better doing anything else. It's basically a misguided Google search used as a reply.

 

[Monoblock]

I rocked wit galaxy and nexus for a long time. Got a iPhone 6+ and will never go back to a droid if I got paid to. shyt is pure trash, after a couple months phone becomes slow and unresponsive, most people not using all that extra fukk shyt anyway.

Same for me. I was a die hard Android user for years (5+) until I finally had enough with the shytty battery feeling like it was burning a hole in my pocket and it getting slow after about 3-4 months. Grabbed the Iphone 6 and never turned back. I really didnt use all those features on Android and when you could they were buggy as hell and killed your battery. Its just not worth it. If your gonna pay for a phone you might as well get one that has the best quality when it comes to material and all over functionality.

 

[Golayitdown]

Same for me. I was a die hard Android user for years (5+) until I finally had enough with the shytty battery feeling like it was burning a hole in my pocket and it getting slow after about 3-4 months. Grabbed the Iphone 6 and never turned back. I really didnt use all those features on Android and when you could they were buggy as hell and killed your battery. Its just not worth it. If your gonna pay for a phone you might as well get one that has the best quality when it comes to material and all over functionality.

There were a gang of Android to iOS converts after the 6 and 6s dropped. I wish I would have stuck around to at least see what the 6P could do, but I don't regret the move at all. How's the transition going for you?

 

[Monoblock]

There were a gang of Android to iOS converts after the 6 and 6s dropped. I wish I would have stuck around to at least see what the 6P could do, but I don't regret the move at all. How's the transition going for you?

Lovely. I'm creeping up on a year and my IPhone hasn't missed a step. I forgot to mention the last straw for me with my S5 at the time was when my default music player would not work. anymore. I tried all of those 3rd party ones and would just randomly crash midway through songs. It seems after I had to do a Verizon update the phone continued to get worse and worse to the point it was flat out unuseable.

 

[O.G.B]

Most the technology related text in this reply is bullshyt
You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to hardware

Stop spreading incorrect bullshyt to the brehs, breh

The fact that you wasted your time even composing this sorry, menial 3rd grade response proves you can't counter or debunk anything whatsoever that I mentioned.& shows that it's you that doesn't actually know shyt.

And if your such a expert technology wise in regards to smart phone hardware/software then I challenge you disprove or invalidate what I've wrote!


So put up or shut the fukk up!


Don't worry, I'll wait!

 

[Rain]

Same for me. I was a die hard Android user for years (5+) until I finally had enough with the shytty battery feeling like it was burning a hole in my pocket and it getting slow after about 3-4 months. Grabbed the Iphone 6 and never turned back. I really didnt use all those features on Android and when you could they were buggy as hell and killed your battery. Its just not worth it. If your gonna pay for a phone you might as well get one that has the best quality when it comes to material and all over functionality.

This is basically me. I realized I didn't even use most of the stuff I would give Android credit for having over iOS. The only thing I will say that I miss from android is the notification light. But that's not a deal breaker.