It's real in these Ukrainian trenches... (NSFW)

[Bonk]

Thousands of Russian technical advisers assisted North Vietnamese forces during the Vietnam War.

By the early 1960s, North Vietnam also had pilots training on the MiG-17 in China—with Chinese pilots flying and fighting in North Vietnamese airspace at the beginning of the war. Records indicate that the first air-to-air kills by MiGs were credited to Chinese pilots.

The US was not just fighting North Vietnam.



The first B-2 bomber took flight in 1989...




I think you were thinking about the B-52, block head.



Yeah, the US has been maintaining and upgrading the flying fortress because it's a dope platform to build off of. Why not keep using it? And as to being shot down, I'm pretty sure that the US would wipe out any threats before sending them in because 'Murrica.

I already changed it to B52 (it was a typo).

The same way tens of thousands of western forces & assets (including satellite information in real time) are assisting Ukraine. Ukraine’s command centre is in Poland & over $100billion has been handed to Ukraine. North Vietnam & Vietcong didn’t have that luxury.

Anyway, that’s beside the point.

The last paragraph is laughable cos US & NATO couldn’t even fly sorties over Southern Libya during the regime change against Gaddafi despite Libya’s AD being obsolete.

Perhaps you also need to educate yourself on all the failures/limitations of US SEAD during the Balkan wars despite how obsolete Serbian AD & SAMs were.

Using demilitarised Iraq that was under arms embargo for a decade before invasion & a backward Afghanistan with only tribal fighters & Taliban as a yardstick has gassed a lot of you. Against a peer or near-peer - the US will suffer 5x the losses it had in Vietnam (aircraft). Modern US jets aren’t even as good as the old ones & the F35 that stays dropping out of the sky is a classic example.

Air superiority against a peer is a myth since AD & SAMs are advanced & sophisticated. So, battles are gonna be won in the trenches & with tanks on open fields.

 

[Bonk]

@Bonk, what happens when the US gives Ukraine a few of these?

Where was this gun when the Chinese balloon was flying at a higher altitude before it dropped to an altitude where the F-22 could shoot it down?

The Israeli laser beam is more advanced than this. Ditto Russian s500.

Sorry, it’s another wunderwaffe that looks good for Hollywood but utter useless in real battles.

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

The same way tens of thousands of western forces & assets (including satellite information in real time) are assisting Ukraine.

Ukraine’s command centre is in Poland & over $100billion has been handed to Ukraine. North Vietnam & Vietcong didn’t have that luxury.

Sit down and learn something @Bonk. During the Vietnam War, there were several places that were off-limits for the United States to attack witch the North Vietnamese operated out of. These included:

1. Hanoi and Haiphong: These were the two largest cities in North Vietnam, and they were off-limits to the US military because they were the political and economic centers of North Vietnam. Attacking these cities could have caused significant damage to the civilian population, which would have been counterproductive to the US goal of winning the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese people.
2. The DMZ: The Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) was a strip of land that separated North and South Vietnam. It was off-limits to the US military because it was a buffer zone, and any military action taken there would have been seen as an act of aggression by both North and South Vietnam.
3. Laos and Cambodia: These neighboring countries were off-limits to the US military because the US was not officially at war with them. However, the US did conduct secret bombing raids in these countries, which were later revealed to the public and caused significant controversy.

The last paragraph is laughable cos US & NATO couldn’t even fly sorties over Southern Libya during the regime change against Gaddafi despite Libya’s AD being obsolete.

Why would NATO do that anyway?

Perhaps you also need to educate yourself on all the failures/limitations of US SEAD during the Balkan wars despite how obsolete Serbian AD & SAMs were.

That was a quarter century ago... And btw, the bombing campaign was successful in achieving its stated goals of ending the Serbian government's aggression in Kosovo and forcing Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic to negotiate a peace settlement. The air strikes damaged or destroyed a significant portion of the Serbian military's infrastructure, including air defense systems, command and control centers, and weapons depots.

According to NATO's official estimates, the air campaign destroyed a significant portion of the Serbian air defense system. NATO claimed that it destroyed over 100 fixed and mobile air defense systems, including radar sites, command and control centers, and missile launchers. This included the destruction of the SA-3, SA-6, and SA-9 surface-to-air missile systems, which were some of the most advanced air defense systems in the Serbian arsenal.

Sooooo....?

US jets aren’t even as good as the old ones & the F35 that stays dropping out of the sky is a classic example.

Better than anything Russia has. What up with that SU-35, bro? Where they at, bro?

Air superiority against a peer is a myth since AD & SAMs are advanced & sophisticated. So, battles are gonna be won in the trenches & with tanks on open fields.

Have you heard of the AGM-88 HARM, bro? It stands for High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile. The AGM-88 is a tactical air-to-surface missile that is designed to seek out and destroy radar and other electronic targets. It is typically launched from fighter aircraft such as the F-16 and F/A-18, bro.

The AGM-88 works by homing in on the radar emissions from the target, which allows it to precisely locate and strike the radar site. The missile has a range of over 150 km and can be used to take out a variety of radar systems, including air defense radars, surveillance radars, and tracking radars, bro.

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

 

[Bonk]

Sit down and learn something @Bonk. During the Vietnam War, there were several places that were off-limits for the United States to attack witch the North Vietnamese operated out of. These included:

1. Hanoi and Haiphong: These were the two largest cities in North Vietnam, and they were off-limits to the US military because they were the political and economic centers of North Vietnam. Attacking these cities could have caused significant damage to the civilian population, which would have been counterproductive to the US goal of winning the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese people.
2. The DMZ: The Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) was a strip of land that separated North and South Vietnam. It was off-limits to the US military because it was a buffer zone, and any military action taken there would have been seen as an act of aggression by both North and South Vietnam.
3. Laos and Cambodia: These neighboring countries were off-limits to the US military because the US was not officially at war with them. However, the US did conduct secret bombing raids in these countries, which were later revealed to the public and caused significant controversy.

Why would NATO do that anyway?

That was a quarter century ago... And btw, the bombing campaign was successful in achieving its stated goals of ending the Serbian government's aggression in Kosovo and forcing Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic to negotiate a peace settlement. The air strikes damaged or destroyed a significant portion of the Serbian military's infrastructure, including air defense systems, command and control centers, and weapons depots.

According to NATO's official estimates, the air campaign destroyed a significant portion of the Serbian air defense system. NATO claimed that it destroyed over 100 fixed and mobile air defense systems, including radar sites, command and control centers, and missile launchers. This included the destruction of the SA-3, SA-6, and SA-9 surface-to-air missile systems, which were some of the most advanced air defense systems in the Serbian arsenal.

Sooooo....?

Better than anything Russia has. What up with that SU-35, bro? Where they at, bro?


Have you heard of the AGM-88 HARM, bro? It stands for High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile. The AGM-88 is a tactical air-to-surface missile that is designed to seek out and destroy radar and other electronic targets. It is typically launched from fighter aircraft such as the F-16 and F/A-18, bro.

The AGM-88 works by homing in on the radar emissions from the target, which allows it to precisely locate and strike the radar site. The missile has a range of over 150 km and can be used to take out a variety of radar systems, including air defense radars, surveillance radars, and tracking radars, bro.

No excuses. Laos’ King actually supported the US during the Vietnam war. Cambodia was the dicey one.

Conversely, Russia has more limitations since Ukraine is surrounded by NATO countries. Ukraine’s command centre is in Poland & that untouchable for Russia. And all its military deliveries are coming via Poland & Romania.

I saw you omitted how the Serbs shot down the American F-111A stealth jet that Americans said was invincible with an obsolete SAM. Also, Serbia’s SAMs were almost unaffected throughout the war. And Kosovo is still a disputed territory till today cos most countries don’t recognise it as a sovereign country.

What about the Pristina Airport incident? I see you omitted that.

Ukraine is currently using HARM (has been using it since last summer) on a different platform & it’s ineffective against Russia. It’s just another wunderwaffe with a beautiful name but utter useless against a good military.

Russia has SU-57 (I don’t think it’s fully stealthy) but it has more kills than American F-22 & F-35 combined. F-22’s only kill is the Chinese balloon while F-35 has zero kills (apart from dropping from the sky).

SU- 57 had its first kill in Ukraine against Ukrainian SU-27.

 

[HabitualChiller]

Man I hope none of us get to experience the frontlines of WW3.

Thankfully most of the coli is so we won't be drafted unless these gen z fakkits really make a mess of it

Which they probably will, who are we kidding.

The government should send you old ass nikkas in first. You kats are already 30 with a foot in the grave. Might as well add some excitement to your lives before you go

 

[42 Monks]

"gormless pillock"

what in the fukk

 

[HabitualChiller]

You lot are used to the US bombing farmers hence you think that’s what every war would look like.

When the US finally takes on a peer or near-pear that has capabilities to shoot down drones, bombers, helis & jets - with sophisticated EW & satellite communications in real time - you would see that trench warfare isn’t obsolete. And you would have to throw bodies in trenches & sophisticated fortifications to win whilst fighting for every inch.

War is brutal - it’s not a video game.

That's incorrect. American doctrine is such that we look to obtain air superiority before we send in troops.

Ukraine and Russia's war has devolved into trench warfare because neither side is able to roll out aircraft in mass to do damage to opposing ground forces.

 

[DOSDUMUNI]

And THAT is why you low-crawl to get to firing positions to engage the enemy.​

Yea homie got plucked quick.

 

[42 Monks]

That's incorrect. American doctrine is such that we look to obtain air superiority before we send in troops.

Ukraine and Russia's war has devolved into trench warfare because neither side is able to roll out aircraft in mass to do damage to opposing ground forces.

not to mention all this trench bullshyt only occurs because of a lack of armor comical takes front to back in this thread

 

[shopthatwrecks]

nazi babble

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

Conversely, Russia has more limitations since Ukraine is surrounded by NATO countries.

Russia is not "surrounded" by NATO. Look at a Mapl.

Ukraine’s command centre is in Poland & that untouchable for Russia. And all its military deliveries are coming via Poland & Romania.

Deal with it?

I saw you omitted how the Serbs shot down the American F-111A stealth jet that Americans said was invincible with an obsolete SAM.

The F-111A went out of service in in 2010. It's irrelevant to the convo.

What about the Pristina Airport incident? I see you omitted that.

What about it?

Ukraine is currently using HARM (has been using it since last summer) on a different platform & it’s ineffective against Russia. It’s just another wunderwaffe with a beautiful name but utter useless against a good military.

Which Russia doesn't have.

Lazily right off anti radar tech just like the Russians do, brehs...

 

[Marlow Stanfield]

Heroyam Slava

 

[Bonk]

That's incorrect. American doctrine is such that we look to obtain air superiority before we send in troops.

Ukraine and Russia's war has devolved into trench warfare because neither side is able to roll out aircraft in mass to do damage to opposing ground forces.

Air superiority is a myth against any country with modern sophisticated/complex AD & SAMs.

You can achieve air superiority against countries like Iraq & Afghanistan but against a peer - it’s impossible. It sounds good on paper but executing it is a different thing entirely. There’s a reason why NATO ruled out a no-fly immediately after the war started.

This war devolved into trench warfare cos Ukraine spent 8 yrs building sophisticated trenches with tunnels & fortifications in the Donbass area. The area was already a fortress from the Soviet era cos it was the Soviet’s last line on defense before Russia. The area is also littered with sophisticated SAMs.

 

[Bonk]

Russia is not "surrounded" by NATO. Look at a Mapl.

Deal with it?


The F-111A went out of service in in 2010. It's irrelevant to the convo.


What about it?


Which Russia doesn't have.

Lazily right off anti radar tech just like the Russians do, brehs...

I said Ukraine is surrounded by NATO (not Russia) in context of your Laos & Cambodia excuse.

Prior to the Balkan war, the US claimed F-117A NightHawk was invincible until an obsolete Serbian SAM hit it & made it do Stanky Leg. It’s one of the primary reasons it got scrapped.

You omitted how Russians bullied NATO forces at Pristina airport.

Russia has a pretty good military as evidenced in Ukraine against over 20 countries including the US. Any other country except China would’ve crumbled. $100billion is almost twice Russian annual military budget, yet the Russians aren’t even out of the first gear yet. WAGNER & separatists are actually doing more fighting than Russian regulars except VDV.

Russian military has solidified its place as top-3 - the US got wrecked in Vietnam under the same circumstances.

This article explains how utter useless HARM missiles have been in the Ukr vs Rus war:

'HARM-Less' Missiles! US Supplied AGM-88 HARMs Are Failing To Breach Russian Defenses; Downed Missiles Could Be A Proof

Ukraine struck Russia's Belgorod region with HARM missiles. The AGM-88 HARM anti-radiation missiles (ARM), which the US plugged into Ukraine

eurasiantimes.com

Everything looks pretty in theory but practicality against a formidable military is an entirely different topic. It’s the same with the air superiority myth.