Jesus proven not to be the messiah

O.T.I.S.

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The Truth
there may very well be a God, but God would be way too far beyond our understanding or comprehension. hell, we probably would've even see them. we barely see as it is... even colors.


i think if God exists, they aren't really concerned with us. morals are something we decided on as a species over 2 million years. thats why so many cultures share so many things, even ones that never met.


I usually come to this conclusion and take a break for awhile :unimpressed:


Definitely true about the light spectrum. Certain shyt we can’t see.

But certain animals can though
 
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yeah, and theres the Matthew 10:34 problem as well

Jesus wasn't a nice dude all the time :lupe:

Matthew 15:21–28

21 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon.


22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.”


23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.”


24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”


25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”


26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”


27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”


28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

:mjpls:
 

MurderToCassette

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I am comfortable and I love you
Breh posted this like it was a Kent Brockman headline :mjlol:

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PatCake

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I, for one, welcome our new space overlords.
That’s another interesting rabbit hole. Satan is not a singular being. It’s a title. And Satan is a title in the heavenly counsel.

See how little people understand?
Thank you Mr Christopher Richard Hitchens-Dawkins. I had never heard that before :mjlol:

Live your life and fulfill it breh. Not everyome has to see and understand their existence like you do.
 

invalid

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Christ told the jews it wasn't time yet to fulfill the last days prophecies. He fulfilled a lot of OT prophecies but the ones OP's referring to wasn't the time of his first coming. He will return in all power and glory and that's when the humble sheep that went into heaven will come back as a roaring lion, slaughtering the enemies of the Israelites and returning the Israelites to their promised land

Point to in the OT where it says the messiah dies then comes back.

Point to in the OT where it says the messiah fulfills being the messiah a second go round.

Not supported anywhere in the OT.

You quoted Acts which is circular in its logic.
The NT of course paints a narrative of Jesus being the messiah, show where he fulfills that in the OT.

there are two different conflicting messianic types in the old testament. messiah ben joseph and messiah ben david.

since it appears that you @The Realist Perspective have such a firm handle on the OT, can you explain why that is?

can you also explain what would be the motive behind the jewish early followers of christ to elevate him to deity if he was not in fact divine?

christ died a public death - so it can't be said that his followers elevated him to godhood so that he himself could amass wealth, power, and influence.

the apostles and other early followers of christ all suffered agonizing tortuous deaths and they did so without waivering from their claim that they seen the resurrected christ?

what is their motive? they never took glory, power, or wealth for themselves but always pointed back to christ. christ never claimed power, glory or wealth for himself but always pointed back to the father.

what is the motive of all of these people who died taking nothing unto themselves to proclaim christ divine?

what would be the motive of the jews to deny it?
what would be the motive of the muslims to deny it?

i am going to address every one of your points later when I get home from work. but before that i need you to clarify if you understand motives since you're throwing out arguments without being transparent about what motives a party may have for taking the positions that they take.
 

ReturnOfJudah

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Point to in the OT where it says the messiah dies then comes back.

Point to in the OT where it says the messiah fulfills being the messiah a second go round.

Not supported anywhere in the OT.

You quoted Acts which is circular in its logic.
The NT of course paints a narrative of Jesus being the messiah, show where he fulfills that in the OT.
First of all let's talk about his birth and why Herod wanted to kill ,what you would call, just a regular baby.

Matthew 2

King James Version

2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.



And the you got the miracles, being in the grave 3 days/3 nights and raising up in the sky. Putting a man ear back on his head infront of everybody. What more do you want lol

The Jews were still in their land is another indication that it wasn't time. According to the OT these things had to happen before Christ brought back both nations (Northern kingdom and Southern kingdom ) to their land. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Deuteronomy 28:64
Then the LORD will scatter you among all the nations, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

Leviticus 26:33
But I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out a sword after you as your land becomes desolate and your cities are laid waste.

Ezekiel 5:12
A third of your people will die by plague or be consumed by famine within you, a third will fall by the sword outside your walls, and a third I will scatter to every wind and unleash a sword behind them.

Ezekiel 22:15
I will disperse you among the nations and scatter you throughout the lands; I will purge your uncleanness.

And as far as Jesus full filling OT prophecy, here ya go
Isaiah Chapter 53

He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And they made His grave with the wicked— But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors


Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound

Luke (NT) 14:18-21
Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down. All eyes in the synagogue looked at him intently. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
 

MMS

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from what i understand, Christ came to earth to evolve Judaism essentially. however, he was rejected by most Jews as a false Messiah; Saul of Tarsus aka Paul converted (after falling off a donkey in Damascus, apparently) and joined this new cult which he ultimately formed into the Catholic Church. the word spread across Asia Minor and was eventually even adopted in Rome under Constantine.

under this new system, Christ's teachings (which he channeled through His father, God) succeed the Old Testament. However, there was eventually a schism in the church which led to Eastern and Western differences. they both accumulated different compilations of the Bible over time. the Old Testament is roughly the Hebrew Bible, the Tanakh, which is made up of three books, Torah, Nevi'im, and Ketuvim.

It's not all Gods word anyway, a lot of it poetry, history, morality stories, and so on. there's also the Talmud (which is used out of context on here frequently to shyt on Jews), which is essentially Rabbi commentary on worldly/heavenly matters. Thats where you find a lot of gross weirdo shyt... its not necessarily holy. i think of it as an old school blog/diary almost.

christians are supposed to follow Christ, so they shouldn't be fukking with the Old Testament at all. they'd be a lot better people if they didnt. we are seeing what true zealotry looks like in Israel/Palestine right now... Netanyahu calling them Amalekites, citing scripture to justify their murder and genocide. Scary shyt.

tl;dr - the Old Testament is used to fingerpoint at people basically. and by Jews. and remixed by Muhammed... known as the Quran.

i am agnostic myself, but religions are fascinating. but i try to take them as what they are, old school morality plays mixed in with some factual and non-factual history. look up biblical monsters sometime and tell me you can ever take it that serious.

i apologize if i offended anyones views. just my interpretation.. tho it might be the bud talking. and it aint AI.. im this dumb naturally:mjlit:
What is your opinion on the Eucharist?


 
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there are two different conflicting messianic types in the old testament. messiah ben joseph and messiah ben david.

since it appears that you @The Realist Perspective have such a firm handle on the OT, can you explain why that is?

can you also explain what would be the motive behind the jewish early followers of christ to elevate him to deity if he was not in fact divine?

christ died a public death - so it can't be said that his followers elevated him to godhood so that he himself could amass wealth, power, and influence.

the apostles and other early followers of christ all suffered agonizing tortuous deaths and they did so without waivering from their claim that they seen the resurrected christ?

what is their motive? they never took glory, power, or wealth for themselves but always pointed back to christ. christ never claimed power, glory or wealth for himself but always pointed back to the father.

what is the motive of all of these people who died taking nothing unto themselves to proclaim christ divine?

what would be the motive of the jews to deny it?
what would be the motive of the muslims to deny it?

i am going to address every one of your points later when I get home from work. but before that i need you to clarify if you understand motives since you're throwing out arguments without being transparent about what motives a party may have for taking the positions that they take.

This is moving the goal post. You’re basically saying why did they drink the koolaid if John Jones wasn’t the real deal.

Doesn’t matter. Jesus does not line up to what is described what the messiah will be in the OT.
 

MMS

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there may very well be a God, but God would be way too far beyond our understanding or comprehension. hell, we probably would'nt even be able to see them. we barely see as it is... even colors.


i think if God exists, they aren't really concerned with us. morals are something we decided on as a species over 2 million years. thats why so many cultures share so many things, even ones that never met.
how do you say "we probably cant comprehend, or see"

then in the same post say "are probably not concerned with us"

didnt you just say that you can't comprehend and that you can't see?

giphy.gif

 
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