Jesus proven not to be the messiah

[Turtle]

Yeah, no shyt, religion is fake

 

[invalid]

This is moving the goal post. You’re basically saying why did they drink the koolaid if John Jones wasn’t the real deal.

Doesn’t matter. Jesus does not line up to what is described what the messiah will be in the OT.

it's not moving the goal post. it has everything to do with scripture interpretation. and you're still in error comparing christ to someone who wanted to amass power for himself. your whole grasp of the fundamentals is faulty.

christ not lining up with what's described in the OT is an assertion you can't back up because you have yet to explain why the jews, whose position you are taking, had two different types of messiahs. and both you and the jews failed to explain how they are reconciled. the only thing that has been asserted is "christ is not it" which is insufficient because you're selectively painting christ against one depiction of the messiah and not both. jews have a motive for doing it of course for whatever reason you're afraid to state.

 

[I'm Blackman]

Didnt read blasphemy

 

[The Realist Perspective]

First of all let's talk about his birth and why Herod wanted to kill ,what you would call, just a regular baby.

Matthew 2​

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King James Version​

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2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.



And the you got the miracles, being in the grave 3 days/3 nights and raising up in the sky. Putting a man ear back on his head infront of everybody. What more do you want lol

The Jews were still in their land is another indication that it wasn't time. According to the OT these things had to happen before Christ brought back both nations (Northern kingdom and Southern kingdom ) to their land. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Deuteronomy 28:64
Then the LORD will scatter you among all the nations, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

Leviticus 26:33
But I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out a sword after you as your land becomes desolate and your cities are laid waste.

Ezekiel 5:12
A third of your people will die by plague or be consumed by famine within you, a third will fall by the sword outside your walls, and a third I will scatter to every wind and unleash a sword behind them.

Ezekiel 22:15
I will disperse you among the nations and scatter you throughout the lands; I will purge your uncleanness.

And as far as Jesus full filling OT prophecy, here ya go
Isaiah Chapter 53

He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And they made His grave with the wicked— But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors


Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound

Luke (NT) 14:18-21
Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down. All eyes in the synagogue looked at him intently. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

None of that actually answers the question…I’ll still address them though. I have the time today.

Where in the OT does it say the Messiah dies, comes back from the dead, and then does the rest of the messianic job later on?

Herod being paranoid doesn’t prove messiahship. Pharaoh was paranoid too. Doesn’t make Moses divine. You’re pointing to people allegedly responding to Jesus, not to prophecies being fulfilled by him.

You brought up miracles. Alright, but prophets did miracles all through the OT. Elijah called fire from heaven. Elisha raised the dead. That didn’t make them the Messiah.

Isaiah 53. No doubt it talks about suffering etc. But where does it say that’s the Messiah? It says “my servant.” That could be a prophet, or Israel, or whoever. The text doesn’t name the Messiah. And even if that was the case it still doesn’t say he comes back later to finish the job.

Isaiah 61. Jesus quoted it, yeah, but he stopped halfway through the verse. Didn’t proclaim the day of vengeance. Didn’t gather the tribes. Didn’t restore the land. That’s not fulfillment, that’s picking half a sentence and saying “done.”

And the scattering verses in Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, Leviticus. Those are about judgment, not messianic restoration. But again, that’s not what I asked. I asked where the Messiah is said to come, die, resurrect, then return later to finish restoring Israel. That aint in the Tanakh.

Quoting the New Testament to prove Jesus is the Messiah is again circular. The New Testament is claiming he fulfilled prophecy. I’m asking you to show where that prophecy exists in the Hebrew Scriptures. If it isn’t there, it isn’t fulfillment bro.

So again, where is this at?

 

[Turtle]

Why hasn’t god come to save you?!?

 

[ReturnOfJudah]

None of that actually answers the question…I’ll still address them though. I have the time today.

Where in the OT does it say the Messiah dies, comes back from the dead, and then does the rest of the messianic job later on?

Herod being paranoid doesn’t prove messiahship. Pharaoh was paranoid too. Doesn’t make Moses divine. You’re pointing to people allegedly responding to Jesus, not to prophecies being fulfilled by him.

You brought up miracles. Alright, but prophets did miracles all through the OT. Elijah called fire from heaven. Elisha raised the dead. That didn’t make them the Messiah.

Isaiah 53. No doubt it talks about suffering etc. But where does it say that’s the Messiah? It says “my servant.” That could be a prophet, or Israel, or whoever. The text doesn’t name the Messiah. And even if that was the case it still doesn’t say he comes back later to finish the job.

Isaiah 61. Jesus quoted it, yeah, but he stopped halfway through the verse. Didn’t proclaim the day of vengeance. Didn’t gather the tribes. Didn’t restore the land. That’s not fulfillment, that’s picking half a sentence and saying “done.”

And the scattering verses in Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, Leviticus. Those are about judgment, not messianic restoration. But again, that’s not what I asked. I asked where the Messiah is said to come, die, resurrect, then return later to finish restoring Israel. That aint in the Tanakh.

Quoting the New Testament to prove Jesus is the Messiah is again circular. The New Testament is claiming he fulfilled prophecy. I’m asking you to show where that prophecy exists in the Hebrew Scriptures. If it isn’t there, it isn’t fulfillment bro.

So again, where is this at?

The OT doesn't say how many times Christ will be on this earth. The OT mentions how Christ was on top of the mountain giving commandments to Moses. So obviously in the OT he was around.

 

[Cat piss martini]

Book of Catpiticus.....Chapter 8 verse 6
Yo mama aint shyt.

 

[The Realist Perspective]

it's not moving the goal post. it has everything to do with scripture interpretation. and you're still in error comparing christ to someone who wanted to amass power for himself. your whole grasp of the fundamentals is faulty.

christ not lining up with what's described in the OT is an assertion you can't back up because you have yet to explain why the jews, whose position you are taking, had two different types of messiahs. and both you and the jews failed to explain how they are reconciled. the only thing that has been asserted is "christ is not it" which is insufficient because you're selectively painting christ against one depiction of the messiah and not both. jews have a motive for doing it of course for whatever reason you're afraid to state.

You’re still dodging bro.

I asked for scripture that actually says the messiah dies, comes back later, and finishes the job. You came back talkin about followers psychology and rabbinic stuff thats not even in the Tanakh. Thats not answering the question, that’s just dancing around it.

This messiah ben Joseph vs messiah ben David thing? That’s midrash, not Torah, not the prophets. It’s post biblical commentary. So if that’s what you gotta lean on, don’t act like Jesus is clearly fulfilling OT prophecy. You’re building your case on tradition too, just like them folks who rejected him.

And nah, I’m not dodging motives either. The Jews didn’t accept Jesus because he didn’t do what the messiah was supposed to do. He didn’t gather the exiles, didn’t rebuild the temple, didn’t bring peace, didn’t reign as king from Jerusalem. That’s not just “one view” that’s LITERAL WHAT THE PROPHETS SAY.

You’re trying to make it fit backwards. But if we just look at the plain text, Jesus doesn’t line up with the blueprint. That’s not me twisting things, that’s just reading what it says without already assuming he’s the guy.

So again, show me where the OT says the messiah dies, comes back, and finishes the job in a second visit. If you can’t do that, then everything else is just noise to cover that up.

 

[kevm3]

Of course chatgpt which is a digital ouija board will say that. You are talking to demons

 

[The Realist Perspective]

The OT doesn't say how many times Christ will be on this earth. The OT mentions how Christ was on top of the mountain giving commandments to Moses. So obviously in the OT he was around.

This is another point. Zero mention of Yeshua, Jesus, etc in the OT. It names gods name by direct name, YHWH

 

[kevm3]

You’re still dodging bro.

I asked for scripture that actually says the messiah dies, comes back later, and finishes the job. You came back talkin about followers psychology and rabbinic stuff thats not even in the Tanakh. Thats not answering the question, that’s just dancing around it.

This messiah ben Joseph vs messiah ben David thing? That’s midrash, not Torah, not the prophets. It’s post biblical commentary. So if that’s what you gotta lean on, don’t act like Jesus is clearly fulfilling OT prophecy. You’re building your case on tradition too, just like them folks who rejected him.

And nah, I’m not dodging motives either. The Jews didn’t accept Jesus because he didn’t do what the messiah was supposed to do. He didn’t gather the exiles, didn’t rebuild the temple, didn’t bring peace, didn’t reign as king from Jerusalem. That’s not just “one view” that’s LITERAL WHAT THE PROPHETS SAY.

You’re trying to make it fit backwards. But if we just look at the plain text, Jesus doesn’t line up with the blueprint. That’s not me twisting things, that’s just reading what it says without already assuming he’s the guy.

So again, show me where the OT says the messiah dies, comes back, and finishes the job in a second visit. If you can’t do that, then everything else is just noise to cover that up.

Because that is what Jesus will do in the 2nd coming. Did you read revelations?

 

[The Realist Perspective]

Of course chatgpt which is a digital ouija board will say that. You are talking to demons

I listed the scriptures so you can see for yourself. Can you refute what the scriptures state?

 

[The Realist Perspective]

Because that is what Jesus will do in the 2nd coming. Did you read revelations?

Of course it would. NT exists to paint Jesus as the messiah. I’m asking, how, when lined up with the requirements in the OT?

 

[JoelB]

This is another point. Zero mention of Yeshua, Jesus, etc in the OT. It names gods name by direct name, YHWH

and yet, the GOD that is mentioned in Genesis 1:1 (In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth)

The word for GOD אֱלֹהִים is plural

 

[The Realist Perspective]

and yet, the GOD that is mentioned in Genesis 1:1 (In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth)

The word for GOD אֱלֹהִים is plural

Fair. But again, by name.

They talk about Baal, Moloch, Dagon, Ishtar…but no name of Jesus / Yeshua.