Jesus proven not to be the messiah

[BigTyme Records]

Ion believe in non of that shyt anyway

 

[Still Benefited]

This is why we have billions of Christians nowadays. No one critically thinks and actually reads the Bible. They just listen to what the pastor says or what’s generally accepted.

Just look at the responses. No one can take the post head on.

As a Christian myself,I believe you and ChatGPT to be correct. Obviously I cant say for certain,but its my interpretation from reading the bible.

Jesus said it himself


“I will send you the Helper[e] from the Father. The Helper is the Spirit of truth[f] who comes from the Father. When he comes, he will tell about me. 27 And you will tell people about me too, because you have been with me from the beginning."


Jesus cant be the only mediator between god and man,yet send a helper. "The helper" is the same spirit that was within Jesus,that jesus said was within all of the chosen "ye are gods". The trinity is God,the spirit of god and man. "The Son of God" is merely "The Spirit of God". And the spirit of god predates jesus. Which is why you arent supposed to deify a man,you deify his words and his works. If those words and works are born from god.But Im only here to tell you why your wrong,about how to be right with god. None of you have to believe me#HereToHelp

 

[ReturnOfJudah]

This is another point. Zero mention of Yeshua, Jesus, etc in the OT. It names gods name by direct name, YHWH

David is in the OT and Psalms 110 is talking about Christ. ​

Psalms 110:1 David said​

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Matthew 22:41-46​

​

King James Version​

​

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,​

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Matthew 26:64
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

 

[DoubleClutch]

The Messiah

⸻



Was Jesus the Messiah Foretold in the Old Testament?



1. What Does the Old Testament Say About the Messiah?



The OT lays out clear, concrete expectations for the Messiah—no guesswork, no metaphors needed:

• Line of David: Must be a direct descendant of King David (2 Sam. 7:12–13, Jer. 23:5).

• Reigns as King: A visible, political ruler over Israel (Isa. 9:6–7, Jer. 33:15).

• Gathers all Jews: Brings exiled Jews back to Israel (Isa. 11:11–12, Ezek. 37:21–22).

• Rebuilds the Temple: Involves the restoration of the Temple in Jerusalem (Ezek. 37:26–28).

• Establishes global peace: No war, full justice, harmony worldwide (Isa. 2:4, Mic. 4:3).

• Upholds Torah: The Torah (God’s Law) is observed and honored worldwide (Isa. 2:2–3).



These are public, historical, observable accomplishments. Not symbolic, not spiritualized, not deferred to the afterlife.



⸻



2. Did Jesus Fulfill These OT Messianic Requirements?



No, not by the OT’s plain, original standards:

• He did not reign as king.

• He did not gather Jews back to Israel.

• He did not rebuild the Temple—it was destroyed shortly after his death.

• He did not bring global peace—wars and oppression continued.

• He did not lead a Torah-observant revival—his followers eventually abandoned core commandments like circumcision and kosher laws.



⸻



3. So Why Do Christians Still Call Him the Messiah?



Christianity changes the rules to justify the claim:

• Spiritualizes the prophecies (e.g., “peace” = peace with God, not world peace).

• Claims a second coming to fulfill the unmet parts—a concept not found in the OT.

• Retrofits OT passages (like Isaiah 53) to apply to Jesus, even though they weren’t seen as messianic in Jewish tradition before Christianity.

• Overrides the OT reading by placing NT interpretation above OT context.



This creates a new framework that only works if you already believe Jesus is the Messiah. It’s not persuasive from the OT alone.



⸻



4. Isn’t That a Contradiction?



Yes. It’s like someone claims to be playing your game by your rules—but they:

• Change the win conditions.

• Say the original rules were metaphorical.

• Claim the real game was “spiritual” all along.



By OT standards, Jesus does not fulfill the messianic job description. That’s why Judaism rejects the claim entirely—not out of stubbornness, but because it doesn’t add up.



⸻



5. Isn’t Jesus Then in Conflict with YHWH?



Here’s the hard-hitting truth:

• YHWH says clearly in the OT: “You shall have no other gods before me” (Exodus 20:3).

• He says He alone saves, shares His glory with no one, and there is no mediator(Isaiah 43:11, 42:8, Deut. 4:35).

• But Jesus in the NT says: “No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

• People begin praying to Jesus, calling him God, worshiping him directly.



This is a massive theological shift. If the OT is taken at face value, then placing Jesus between humanity and YHWH makes him a rival, not a servant.



The NT solution is the Trinity, which redefines monotheism to include Jesus as God. But this concept does not appear in the OT, and would have been totally alien to every OT prophet and follower of YHWH.



⸻



Conclusion: What Does This Mean?

• If you’re evaluating based strictly on the Old Testament: Jesus does not qualify as the Messiah.

• The New Testament’s reinterpretation of the OT does not align with the original context.

• The NT presents a new religion that claims continuity, but in reality, contradicts the foundation it builds on.

• Recognizing this is not blasphemy—it’s intellectual honesty.



——

Full disclosure yes this is ChatGPT. But can we argue these points?

Should I come through and crush the buildings or sit this one out?

Knicks already got me exhausted from posting

 

[JoelB]

Fair. But again, by name.

They talk about Baal, Moloch, Dagon, Ishtar…but no name of Jesus / Yeshua.

Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

according to the Bible we know there is a divine council in heaven. A GOD among gods.

The first GOD is אֱלֹהִים . The lower tiered Gods are still called אֱלֹהִים

The same אֱלֹהִים we see in Genesis 1:1.

Do you know all of the personal names of the divine council?

 

[The Realist Perspective]

David is in the OT and Psalms 110 is talking about Christ. ​

Psalms 110:1 David said​

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Matthew 22:41-46​

​

King James Version​

​

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,​

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Matthew 26:64
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Come on bro, here y’all go again. Jesus quotes something and now it’s supposed to be a prophecy about him? That’s not how this works. I’m asking for OT proof, not NT spin. Psalm 110 says “my lord” or adoni, which just means a human ruler, not God. There’s still zero mention of Jesus, Yeshua, or a messiah that dies and comes back. You gotta bring OT receipts, not just Jesus saying “this me.”

I mean come on, I’m begging at this point. Can someone show me in the OT, the foundation Christianity was built on, how Jesus aligns with the messiah described in the OT??

You wanna know another funny thing? If Jesus was born immaculately, that would mean he’s not a descendent of Joseph, which would mean he’s not a descendent of David. In the Bible it traces the line through Joseph. Not Mary.

Jewish tradition, tracing lineage, that is defined through the PAPPY.

 

[ReturnOfJudah]

Come on bro, here y’all go again. Jesus quotes something and now it’s supposed to be a prophecy about him? That’s not how this works. I’m asking for OT proof, not NT spin. Psalm 110 says “my lord” or adoni, which just means a human ruler, not God. There’s still zero mention of Jesus, Yeshua, or a messiah that dies and comes back. You gotta bring OT receipts, not just Jesus saying “this me.”

I mean come on, I’m begging at this point. Can someone show me in the OT, the foundation Christianity was built on, how Jesus aligns with the messiah described in the OT??

You wanna know another funny thing? If Jesus was born immaculately, that would mean he’s not a descendent of Joseph, which would mean he’s not a descendent of David. In the Bible it traces the line through Joseph. Not Mary.

Jewish tradition, tracing lineage, that is defined through the PAPPY.

So explain the miracles, the being in the grave 3 days and 3 nights and rising and ascending off in the air. Also explain Jesus being able to teleport. If he's not the one then now did everybody but you get it wrong

 

[The Realist Perspective]

Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

according to the Bible we know there is a divine council in heaven. A GOD among gods.

The first GOD is אֱלֹהִים . The lower tiered Gods are still called אֱלֹהִים

The same אֱלֹהִים we see in Genesis 1:1.

Do you know all of the personal names of the divine council?

Exactly. If he’s supposed to be the center of the whole plan, where’s the name at?

Psalm 82 is interesting for sure. But that’s clearly divine council talk, not Trinity. And yeah same word from Genesis 1, but come on, context makes it clear who’s who. No personal names given for the lesser ones.

So if Jesus is supposed to be part of that council or God’s right hand or whatever, how come he’s not mentioned? We get all these other gods named but not him?

Still no OT name drop.

 

[JoelB]

Exactly. If he’s supposed to be the center of the whole plan, where’s the name at?

Psalm 82 is interesting for sure. But that’s clearly divine council talk, not Trinity. And yeah same word from Genesis 1, but come on, context makes it clear who’s who. No personal names given for the lesser ones.

So if Jesus is supposed to be part of that council or God’s right hand or whatever, how come he’s not mentioned? We get all these other gods named but not him?

Still no OT name drop.

For the record, im not a Trinitarian.

My point is there are devine beings we know for a fact exist (according to the text) that can claim the title 'God', that you dont know the personal name of. The fact that we know some personal names and not all does not determine the importance of these beings or what their specific purpose are.

My position is that Yeshua is in a subordinate position to the "Father"...if he preexisted (as he claimed in john 17:5) but was referred to as אֱלֹהִים / Elohim/ God in the OT, thats not a contradiction or proof that he didnt exist. It just means he was referred to as אֱלֹהִים which is completely acceptable in the context of how that word was used.

 

[Badda_Bing]

Havent been to church since my teens but from what I remember it seems that what the op listed as old testament requirements for the Messiah, are the same as the new testament requirements for the antichrist.

Am I tripping

 

[MrLogic]

Modern Jews aint Hebrew.

in then end even if I don’t 100% believe the Bible I'll rock with Jesus over them

 

[ReturnOfJudah]

Modern Jews aint Hebrew.

in then end even if I don’t 100% believe the Bible I'll rock with Jesus over them

the jewish people in the land today are Edomites

 

[Paper Boi]

use fiction to debunk fiction brehs

















forgive me father

 

[Shabazz]

Daniel’s messianic timeline (Daniel 9 : 24-27) and how the New-Testament record lines up, stated plainly:

1. Text of the prophecy (literal features)
   • “Seventy weeks” (= 70 × 7 heptads of years = 490 years) decreed to finish sin, atone, and anoint the Most Holy.
   • Clock starts with “the going-forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem.”
   • After 7 weeks + 62 weeks (69 × 7 = 483 years) “Messiah shall be cut off and have nothing.”
   • “The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.”
   • In the middle of the seventieth week he “causes sacrifice and offering to cease.”
   • End marked by desolation poured out on the defiled temple area.
2. Historical anchors
   • Decree options: Persian imperial edicts concerning Jerusalem rebuilding—most analysts use Artaxerxes I’s order to Ezra in 457 BC (Ezra 7) or to Nehemiah in 445 BC (Neh 2).
   • 483-year count:
     • 457 BC + 483 = AD 27 (start of Jesus’ public ministry).
     • 445 BC + 483 = AD 39; using prophetic 360-day “years” shifts this to about AD 32–33 (year of crucifixion).
   • “Cut off”: Jesus executed at Passover, AD 30–33, “not for himself” (substitutionary atonement theme).
   • “Middle of the week”: about 3½ years after ministry start, matching the crucifixion point inside the 70th heptad; veil torn (Matt 27 : 51) signals the sacrificial system’s theological invalidation.
   • Temple destroyed: Titus’ Roman legions razed Jerusalem and the Second Temple in AD 70, exactly fulfilling “the people of the prince… destroy the city and the sanctuary.”
3. Other Daniel passages Jesus applied to himself
   • Daniel 7 : 13-14 “Son of Man” receiving everlasting dominion → Jesus quotes this of himself at his trial (Mark 14 : 62).
   • Daniel 2 : 44-45 kingdom “cut from a mountain without hands” that crushes all empires → Jesus’ preaching of the arriving kingdom of God (Mark 1 : 15) and his statement that the kingdom is not from this world (John 18 : 36).
4. Result
   • The sequence—Persian decree → 483 years → public appearance and death of Jesus → Roman destruction of the Second Temple—is a straight, literal match to Daniel’s schedule, meeting the prophecy’s criteria without gaps or allegorical adjustments.

 

[The Realist Perspective]

So explain the miracles, the being in the grave 3 days and 3 nights and rising and ascending off in the air. Also explain Jesus being able to teleport. If he's not the one then now did everybody but you get it wrong

Read the Gospels, man. They all talk about the same stuff, but they don’t line up exactly with each one giving a different angle. The resurrection stories especially? Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John all have different details, and some stuff is straight up left out or added depending on who’s writing.

All four Gospels say Jesus rose, but the details don’t line up cleanly. In Mark, a few women find the tomb empty, a guy in white tells them Jesus is alive, and they freak out and bail. Jesus doesn’t even show up in the earliest version. Matthew adds an earthquake, an angel rolling the stone away, and Jesus showing up to the women and later the disciples in Galilee. Luke has a group of women, two angels at the tomb, and Jesus showing up later to two guys on the road and then the disciples, all around Jerusalem but no Galilee. John is all about Mary Magdalene. She finds the tomb empty, sees two angels, then actually talks to Jesus. Later, He appears to the disciples in Jerusalem, and it’s the only Gospel with the whole “Doubting Thomas” scene.

The same core event, but the who, what, and where? All over the place. You gotta read them side by side to catch it. So yeah, it’s all over the place when you really study it. And you have to ask, just why is that?