Jim Ross goes off on the status of heels in WWE

[Momentum]

Cesaro is a full on face. He will never get booed. Putting him with Heyman the day after the streak ended is dumb. If anything Cesaro should have ran out and stomped out Taker after the match or something. I mean, he even has a cool sparkly jacket No one wants to boo this man

 

[ECA]

Plus if there's anything we've learned it's that these fukkin idiot fans will chant anything.

ANYTHING.

Doesn't matter who you are. You could cut a promo about fukking Daniel Bryan's mother in the ass with a steel pipe and as long as you could find a way to get the fans involved, as long as you make them feel like they're apart of the show... you will get over. You see because fans no longer demand creativity and innovation from their wrestling superstars. They no longer want someone to put their faith in and believe in. Like HHH and Steph said in that promo, fans don't want to put in the work. They just wanna latch on and chant shyt.

And sadly the audiences have conditioned these wrestlers to think that the only way to get over is to get a chant going. So none of these guys feel they need to push the boundaries anymore and give us anything innovative or fresh. They just go out there and concoct methods to encourage some type of fan reaction. I still maintain to this day that Daniel Bryan isn't over. It's his CHANT that's over.

These dumb muthafukkin fans were actually chanting "WE THE PEOPLE" along with Zeb even though they knew full well the hateful and intolerant origin of the catchphrase. But because fans love to chant, because they have no other way to entertain themselves... this redneck hillbilly conservative tight ass BAD GUY manager had arenas chanting along with him in unison. It makes no sense.

JR is right. If there are heels getting positive reactions for whatever reason... then stop whatever it is that they're doing and change course. A heel's job is to get HEAT. That's it. If you're not getting HEAT then you aren't doing your job as a heel.

So we're just gonna ignore the constant "Daniel Bryan" chants that he gets?

They tried to give his chant to AJ, Sheamus, Del Rio, and Big Show and neither of them have gotten half the reaction that D-Bry gets on a regular.

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

I've been saying for a while now

[DOUBLEPOST=1397589260][/DOUBLEPOST]

fans are just too smart.

[DOUBLEPOST=1397589305][/DOUBLEPOST]

I BOlieve that a new era of heels will be ushered into WWE very soon.

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

So we're just gonna ignore the constant "Daniel Bryan" chants that he gets?

They tried to give his chant to AJ, Sheamus, Del Rio, and Big Show and neither of them have gotten half the reaction that D-Bry gets on a regular.

Take the yes chant away from Daniel Bryan and tell me what else does he have that gets him over.

He has no personality and he has no gimmick. There is nothing that makes Daniel Bryan unique. He is a regular joe who admittedly said in plain english that even he doesn't believe he's at where he's at right now... and you could tell because each and every time he's in that ring being showered with yes chants he has the look of someone who's not entirely comfortable. He's said as much himself.

Bryan - through no fault of his own - was given a shortcut to the big stage because the fans put him there. And that's cool and all but you have to ask yourself WHAT did this guy really do to earn their love like that. Because at the end of the day he's still the same Daniel Bryan he was 2 years ago only now he has a chant.

So what changed.

Nothing.

I'll tell you what happened. A smark crowd felt robbed because their indie darling got squashed at Mania, and so in a sign of rebelliousness they got behind him the following night and began the yes chant. And then like sheep, other audiences followed because they thought it looked like fun. And so before you know it, the yes chant is the most over thing in the company... but it just so HAPPENS to be attached to Daniel Bryan. Thus giving people the illusion that he's a sort of people's champion.

But if you took that chant away, what else is there about that character to get behind?

Nothing.

From Daniel Bryan himself, "The yes chant isn't about anything."

Even he knows it.

Fans these days just want to get themselves over and chant.

 

[puppetmaster]

There are some things in wrestling that will never be old. Cheating to win, antagonizing fans, and being cowardly will always work for heels no matter what year it is.

Ever see when it looks like they bout to get it on, and then the heel steps away and leaves the ring acting like he ain't got time... people boo that, still.

Or when Orton gets a cheap pin after some shyt he didn't have anything to do with, and then walks away with the belt like he did it on his own? People boo that.

Nobody boos a heel whoopin' ass and getting clean wins all the time... that'll only get 'em over the other way.

Yep. Some folks aren't getting it. We don't need the return of a roster full of cowardly heels, crowds will latch on to anything that isn't cookie cutter.

Santino said it best when he was a heel back in the day "crowds will chant we love the herpes if a wrestlers tells them to" Bryan is over with or without that chant tho lets not even start that.

you need heels doing dirty shyt because they can. Not because they have to. It's a strong reason why shows like first 48 are so popular, folks wanna see the wicked and corrupt get what's coming to them. That's rasslin' 101 as well it's a formula that will always work

It's similar to the movie Dark Knight Rises, that 20 minute ass whooping Bane gave Batman was sad but what made me invest in the movie was a subtle thing after

Bane picked up Batman's mask after breaking his back looked at it like it was a candy wrapper and flicked it to the ground as tho it really was garbage while walking away with that lil "well that was easier than expected" bop. He didn't need to do all that. He beat him down

I needed to see him get the beats after that, same logic still applies in wrestling.



-P-

 

[b. woods]

Plus if there's anything we've learned it's that these fukkin idiot fans will chant anything.

ANYTHING.

Doesn't matter who you are. You could cut a promo about fukking Daniel Bryan's mother in the ass with a steel pipe and as long as you could find a way to get the fans involved, as long as you make them feel like they're apart of the show... you will get over. You see because fans no longer demand creativity and innovation from their wrestling superstars. They no longer want someone to put their faith in and believe in. Like HHH and Steph said in that promo, fans don't want to put in the work. They just wanna latch on and chant shyt.

And sadly the audiences have conditioned these wrestlers to think that the only way to get over is to get a chant going. So none of these guys feel they need to push the boundaries anymore and give us anything innovative or fresh. They just go out there and concoct methods to encourage some type of fan reaction. I still maintain to this day that Daniel Bryan isn't over. It's his CHANT that's over.

These dumb muthafukkin fans were actually chanting "WE THE PEOPLE" along with Zeb even though they knew full well the hateful and intolerant origin of the catchphrase. But because fans love to chant, because they have no other way to entertain themselves... this redneck hillbilly conservative tight ass BAD GUY manager had arenas chanting along with him in unison. It makes no sense.

JR is right. If there are heels getting positive reactions for whatever reason... then stop whatever it is that they're doing and change course. A heel's job is to get HEAT. That's it. If you're not getting HEAT then you aren't doing your job as a heel.

Dap + rep

 

[jadillac]

JR is right. If there are heels getting positive reactions for whatever reason... then stop whatever it is that they're doing and change course. A heel's job is to get HEAT. That's it. If you're not getting HEAT then you aren't doing your job as a heel.

well, Swagger/Zeb DO get heat/boos when their music hits. And they get heat the entire time they're out there, EXCEPT for when they say "We the people."

The problem with this is that also both Austin & Rock were heels by nature, Daniel Bryan was a heelish character when he first started chanting YES. And look what happened to all of their popularity

 

[ECA]

Take the yes chant away from Daniel Bryan and tell me what else does he have that gets him over.

He has no personality and he has no gimmick. There is nothing that makes Daniel Bryan unique. He is a regular joe who admittedly said in plain english that even he doesn't believe he's at where he's at right now... and you could tell because each and every time he's in that ring being showered with yes chants he has the look of someone who's not entirely comfortable. He's said as much himself.

Bryan - through no fault of his own - was given a shortcut to the big stage because the fans put him there. And that's cool and all but you have to ask yourself WHAT did this guy really do to earn their love like that. Because at the end of the day he's still the same Daniel Bryan he was 2 years ago only now he has a chant.

So what changed.

Nothing.

I'll tell you what happened. A smark crowd felt robbed because their indie darling got squashed at Mania, and so in a sign of rebelliousness they got behind him the following night and began the yes chant. And then like sheep, other audiences followed because they thought it looked like fun. And so before you know it, the yes chant is the most over thing in the company... but it just so HAPPENS to be attached to Daniel Bryan. Thus giving people the illusion that he's a sort of people's champion.

But if you took that chant away, what else is there about that character to get behind?

Nothing.

From Daniel Bryan himself, "The yes chant isn't about anything."

Even he knows it.

Fans these days just want to get themselves over and chant.

- The Yes! chants were slowly getting over due to his goofy heel run and then it all escalated at WM 28. That mania crowd gave him a heroes welcome BEFORE that 18 second loss.

- He didn't do the Yes! chant for damn near a whole year during his stint with Team Hell No! And was still over due to his comedic timing.

- Was the only guy to run through The Shield on a consistent basis, and his hot tags during those matches had the crowd. That was the time when the crowd really started getting behind dude as a serious main eventer.

- You can say that Daniel Bryan isn;t over all you want to, but like I said before, they've tried to give his chant to everyone else, but it didn't work for them. Del Rio is still heatless, AJ gets tepid diva pops, and Sheam isn't nearly as over as he needs to be all things considering.

 

[DANJ!]

Take the yes chant away from Daniel Bryan and tell me what else does he have that gets him over.

He has no personality and he has no gimmick. There is nothing that makes Daniel Bryan unique. He is a regular joe who admittedly said in plain english that even he doesn't believe he's at where he's at right now... and you could tell because each and every time he's in that ring being showered with yes chants he has the look of someone who's not entirely comfortable. He's said as much himself.

Bryan - through no fault of his own - was given a shortcut to the big stage because the fans put him there. And that's cool and all but you have to ask yourself WHAT did this guy really do to earn their love like that. Because at the end of the day he's still the same Daniel Bryan he was 2 years ago only now he has a chant.

So what changed.

Nothing.

I'll tell you what happened. A smark crowd felt robbed because their indie darling got squashed at Mania, and so in a sign of rebelliousness they got behind him the following night and began the yes chant. And then like sheep, other audiences followed because they thought it looked like fun. And so before you know it, the yes chant is the most over thing in the company... but it just so HAPPENS to be attached to Daniel Bryan. Thus giving people the illusion that he's a sort of people's champion.

But if you took that chant away, what else is there about that character to get behind?

Nothing.

From Daniel Bryan himself, "The yes chant isn't about anything."

Even he knows it.

Fans these days just want to get themselves over and chant.

Stop, breh...

That's like saying "they woulda cheered anybody that drank beer, it just happened to be Austin"

The "yes" chant added to Bryan already being over and became his hook... the chant was more over than he was two years ago, maybe. But he's gotten very much over since then with or without the chant. He's proven over the last year that he can beat the top guys, and then there's the constantly bein screwed that made people wanna cheer for him more. He's very much over now. If the "yes" chant was the only thing over, they coulda made it a universal WWE chant (like 'what') and he wouldn't be the most popular star they currently have.

 

[krackdagawd]

Sound like CM Punk was the perfect heel then

Too bad the fans wouldn't dislike him

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Stop, breh...

That's like saying "they woulda cheered anybody that drank beer, it just happened to be Austin"

No it's not.

Austin was over as a CHARACTER and as a PERFORMER.

From the music, to the strut, to the cuss words, to the beer, to the attitude, to the looks... to the way he could CONTROL the crowd whenever he grabbed a mic. And mind you I'm not even talkin about the catchphrases. Just listen to the guy talk for a few minutes and watch how captivated those crowds were. They FED off that energy.

With Bryan it's JUST about the chant.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Take the yes chant away from Daniel Bryan and tell me what else does he have that gets him over.

He has no personality and he has no gimmick. There is nothing that makes Daniel Bryan unique. He is a regular joe who admittedly said in plain english that even he doesn't believe he's at where he's at right now... and you could tell because each and every time he's in that ring being showered with yes chants he has the look of someone who's not entirely comfortable. He's said as much himself.

Bryan - through no fault of his own - was given a shortcut to the big stage because the fans put him there. And that's cool and all but you have to ask yourself WHAT did this guy really do to earn their love like that. Because at the end of the day he's still the same Daniel Bryan he was 2 years ago only now he has a chant.

So what changed.

Nothing.

I'll tell you what happened. A smark crowd felt robbed because their indie darling got squashed at Mania, and so in a sign of rebelliousness they got behind him the following night and began the yes chant. And then like sheep, other audiences followed because they thought it looked like fun. And so before you know it, the yes chant is the most over thing in the company... but it just so HAPPENS to be attached to Daniel Bryan. Thus giving people the illusion that he's a sort of people's champion.

But if you took that chant away, what else is there about that character to get behind?

Nothing.

From Daniel Bryan himself, "The yes chant isn't about anything."

Even he knows it.

Fans these days just want to get themselves over and chant.

Smart fans around our age started chanting Yes before that wrestlemania. I went to a house show on the road to wrestlemania and we all chanted yes before Vince chose to acknowlege it. We commented on it on before we even got to the beginning of the year. That monster pop he got when he joined Team WWE against Nexus is proof that dude was going to get over no matter what. The yes chant just took him to new levels.

 

[DANJ!]

No it's not.

Austin was over as a CHARACTER and as a PERFORMER.

From the music, to the strut, to the cuss words, to the beer, to the attitude, to the looks... to the way he could CONTROL the crowd whenever he grabbed a mic. And mind you I'm not even talkin about the catchphrases. Just listen to the guy talk for a few minutes and watch how captivated those crowds were. They FED off that energy.

With Bryan it's JUST about the chant.

Your desire for that to be true... isn't as strong as the fact that the fans like DANIEL BRYAN.

He's not an Austin, but he doesn't have to be... he's not living off the chant, the chant is living through him.

 

[FRIED MASON]

Barrett could be a good heel if booked right...

 

[The Electric Lady]

I read about this on reddit and it goes to show why TSC is the best wrasslin forum.

Look at these replies.

These fukkers think they know better than Jim Ross.

This is the equivalent of someone bytching that the three pointer and touching the rim have ruined basketball. It's a different game now, JR. The stories told on The Andy Griffith Show aren't exactly appealing to the viewer when Breaking Bad is an option. I'm no longer paying to "see the bad guy get his due" I'm paying for compelling stories told through well crafted promos and paid off through solid, exciting ring work.

It's not 1980. There is no such thing as "protecting the business" and I'd rather see a "grey" character like Cesaro impress me with his incredible ring skills and feats of strength than have him reach into his trunks for some brass knucks behind the refs back.

Standing round of applause

This is on the time, and it's not just apparent within the wrestling biz. Think about some of the best TV at the moment. Breaking bad. True Detective. Walking Dead. House of cards.

Audiences are more interested in interesting stories and most importantly, great writing. Its not the 80s / 90s where TV shows could easily push a 'this guy is good and does good things' versus 'this guy is bad and does bad things'. Audiences have seen that and they need to be drawn in by motives. People aren't either good or evil (for the most part). Good people do shytty things and shytty people do good things. If the characters are believable and well written then they are compelling and people will tune in to see what happens.

I'd love for them to start addressing this old dynamic via story telling. In the kayfabe world, Cesaro's only bad thing is aligning himself with Heyman. Why would Cesaro do this? Well, Heyman, in Kayfabe, is the greatest manager in the WWE at the moment. Its a good business decision to work with someone who gets results. Well, just because they work together shouldn't mean they agree on everything, and Cesaro's personal journey of working out how far he is personally willing to go to be successful would be a compelling story leading to a final pay off of Cesaro become a full blown bad ass heel, or realising that he wants to do things the right way and turn on the guidance of Heyman (with obvious Lesnar repercussions).

That kind of story telling is far more interesting to me than 'Well, he's stopped doing the swing now so I guess he's a baddie'.

These nikkas talking about wanting complicated storylines and shyt. From PRO WRESTLING. shyt on JR's wisdom. Argue that people don't want good vs bad anymore while ignoring that the Daniel Bryan vs Authority storyline IS good vs bad, and more.

fukking disgusting.

Thank GOD for TSC.