Joey B vs. Don Tha Con: Battle For The Soul Of America - 2020 Presidential Debate in Cleveland, OH

[mastermind]

I get what they're trying to do here, but I really hate when people say stuff like this. Nixon's war crime of the Cambodia campaign and his treasonous backchannelling to sabotage Vietnam War peace talks during the '68 election. Bush Jr. knowingly lying about WMDs to sell the fraudulent War in Iraq. Bush Sr.'s entrapment of Keith Jackson to sell drugs near the white house so he could tell the story in his address to the nation and sell the War on Drugs. Hell, Woodrow Wilson screened Birth of a Nation in the White House and constantly stanned the KKK openly. Trump is a b*stard and needs to be removed as soon as possible by any means necessary, but his buffoonery last night shouldn't be compared to the other actual murderous actions taken by previous administrations and Presidents. Shows people are more concerned with decorum than actual brutality and oppression. He shouldn't be used as a vehicle to rehabilitate other monsters or whitewash American history.

Americans love symbols over actual performance. Its why Reagan is exalted.

 

[Cave Savage]

Bernie would of been better with the zingers, he wouldn't have missed those softballs, but he would of got bodied on the socialism...

Bernie can't deny he's a socialist and he doesn't...This country will NEVER go for that...

Yeah I think Bernie would have been sharper and not missed the obvious points against Trump.

But yeah. And keep in mind Biden did better than Bernie in the primaries in white working class places like Michigan, which were supposed to be Bernie's bread and butter.

I will say though, that Bernie would bring more Mexicans to the polls. They're the one group he improved his performance with versus 2016.

That could help out with AZ, NV, AND TX, but Biden will probably win two of those and probably all three.

you know what, i disagree

say what you want about it, but that was a massive W for trump. he took out a so-called terrorist with zero blowback and without getting into a war, and trump can EASILY brag about that on the debate stage

don't think biden wants to question that one, this isnt the dem primary anymore

True but what can he talk about then?

I'm nervous about a 90 minute debate on foreign policy, considering Biden voted for the Iraq war and Obama's less than stellar track record on regime change.

 

[Conan]

Apparently Pence won the vice presidential debate against Tim Kaine by media consensus. Jesus Christ how mid was that ticket

I'd put money down on Kamala dog walking Pence in both 2016 and 2020

 

[Cave Savage]

Americans love symbols over actual performance. Its why Reagan is exalted.

Lol they don't really care about Reagan anymore, Trump is their guy now

But yeah, they care more about him as a symbol than his actual track record

 

[Tony D'Amato]

you know what, i disagree

say what you want about it, but that was a massive W for trump. he took out a so-called terrorist with zero blowback and without getting into a war, and trump can EASILY brag about that on the debate stage

don't think biden wants to question that one, this isnt the dem primary anymore

Trump has b1tched Iran. It really is disgusting.

 

[the cac mamba]

debate commission is coming up with rules to fix it, as they should

i bet trump refuses to agree and it doesnt happen

 

[Hood Critic]

I'd like to see the Biden campaign put together a quick set of videos addressing each topic of the debate under the guise that "the American people deserve to hear the answers I would have given...".

I would really rub it in Trump's face how poorly he did, especially since he isn't capable of having a real debate because he's uninformed on everything relevant to his job.

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

Apparently Pence won the vice presidential debate against Tim Kaine by media consensus. Jesus Christ how mid was that ticket

I'd put money down on Kamala dog walking Pence in both 2016 and 2020

I wouldn't make that bet...

Pence is actually a sharp debater and Copmala been fumbling questions all week...

The only thing she is strong on is questioning Trump and that won't be enough to win the debate...

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

I'd like to see the Biden campaign put together a quick set of videos addressing each topic of the debate under the guise that "the American people deserve to hear the answers I would have given...".

I would really rub it in Trump's face how poorly he did, especially since he isn't capable of having a real debate because he's uninformed on everything relevant to his job.

Hell yeah, shyt would be a wonderful dose of his own medicine. Trolling him softly with his policies.....

 

[the cac mamba]

Apparently Pence won the vice presidential debate against Tim Kaine by media consensus. Jesus Christ how mid was that ticket

I'd put money down on Kamala dog walking Pence in both 2016 and 2020

pence is gonna say a bunch of shyt that's gonna appeal to the general audience. "low taxes, jobs, jesus, economy" etc

kamala can throw him off by pointing out what a failure him and trump were, and how they arent doing anything to take care of average americans

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Really? I'm not sure about the term "full buy-in on socialism" seems a bit loaded. I think the feds and state expanding their lands for this is both necessary and reasonable maybe that's "full buy-in on socialism". It would also be a much better use of government largess than say building a wall on the border and eminent domain cases there imho.

Confiscating private property and dictating its use at the level that would be required for the sort of rural land use transformation you're talking about would certainly be full-blown socialism. You would be talking about a transfer of the means of production from the individual to the government at a scale unprecedented in our nation's established history.

I struggle to see the political will for that sort of massive transformation. And if it did happen...who would control it? Because wealthy politicians in DC don't have all that much more invested in healthy forests than the corporations do, which is a big reason why even Democratic environmental management has been absolute dogshyt in the Clinton and Obama Administrations.

Historically sure Industrialization/The Great Migration if we're talking about previous centuries weren't great for the environment but it's not that simple and you know that.

You didn't read the article - I'm not talking about historically, I'm talking about a process that is continuing NOW. Right now, this very moment, moving forest land out of local control is fukking up the forests environmentally. This article is discussing shifts that are occurring in real time:

Big money bought the forests. Small timber communities are paying the price

The local people want healthy forests because they and their friends hunt on it and need animals to survive. The local people want healthy streams because they and their friends fish them and need fish to survive. The local people want healthy watersheds because their water supply comes from them. The local people want healthy trees because they have to look at them every day.

The corporations who take over that land when the people more out don't care about ANY of that. In the article they don't even call them forests, they call them "tree farms". They don't give a shyt about animals, fish, water, landscape, they're just "farming trees" in the most profit-driven way possible.

With forest land, with farm land, with anything, people care more about that which they know. Absentee landowners simply don't give a shyt the way locals do. Rural people get shyt on for being loggers and farmers, but everyone who has spent time on these issues knows that local rural logging companies take FAR better care of the forests than NYC investment firms; local family farms take FAR better care of their land than mega corporations.

That's like saying Manifest Destiny/Westward Expansion was good for the environment because people moved to more rural places.

People were already there in those places, they were called Native Americans. Your education failed you.

Native Americans took care of the land best because they were the most dependent on the land and most intimately familiar with it. That's not saying that they were perfect, but of course they were better than now. The most stable they were in one place, the better they took care of the land.

When White people moved in, the land suffered because the people were less dependent on the land and less familiar with it. From the very beginning, large landowners could fukk up a tract of land and then move on. They didn't know how to sustain the land because they didn't have 100s of years of experience in the same place, nor did they have generations of children who would depend on it in the future. Their own lives were too separate from the land they were destroying. A small landowner who had been passed down the land through multiple generations and knew what he had to do to take care of it, who had nothing other than the land to pass down to his children and knew they needed to receive it in good shape, did much better.

When people move out, move away from the land, and corporations move in, land use gets worse. That has been true from the moment White people began displacing Native Americans until right now today every time another rural community dies and sells off its landholdings to the highest bidder.

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

pence is gonna say a bunch of shyt that's gonna appeal to the general audience. "low taxes, jobs, jesus, economy" etc

kamala can throw him off by pointing out what a failure him and trump were, and how they arent doing anything to take care of average americans

Not going to beat the dead horse and talk about her faults as I've done that too many damn times...

She has a lot more pressure on her than Pence does because voters do have concerns about Joe's health...

She has to ensure the voters she's not in the AOC socialist camp and can handle the job...

 

[AZBeauty]

Here is another miss from the moderator and Joe.



Joe gotta be a little more sharp.

Actually Trump did respond to this by saying, he has he Senate. Obama didnt.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Its pretty sad too. I had a discussion with a voter at work and she flat out said she can’t fukk with Socialism. When I asked her to actually explain what Socialism is it was a bunch of fear mongering bullshyt. After explaining the certain elements of Socialism we do use it really changed her perspective.

I wish that as a society we could sue government for educational malpractice. We’ll be taught bullshyt at a moments notice just to protect the wealth and privilege of a tiny few.

Thats Bernie's fault, honestly. He was irresponsible with how he allowed himself to be framed and inadvertently capped real chances for the left to make credible gains outside of primarying safe blue districts.

You gotta know the territory you're playing with and thusly why Warren was the right candidate for the moment.

Politics is more than positioning, its delivery and threading the needle.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Yeah this makes sense. Trump being Trump worked in 2016 because all of his opponents were arguably more unlikeable, but it makes him look like an a$$hole when he does it against Biden, so yeah let him make himself a clown in front of the whole world.

In 2016, voters who disliked both candidates were more likely to vote Trump. This year, they're almost uniformly voting Biden. Key and main difference is that Trump is the incumbent and his Presidency isn't a mere hypothetical. The idea that it was "two sides of the same coin and Hilary would be worse" was far more appealing (and believable for those voters) than Biden and Trump are the same.

Even moreso when Trump delivers an unhinged performance that makes the difference clear again.