And I can respect that, but with the WWE you have all the promo, advertising, public appearances, etc to make. Wouldn't we take that in consideration for Angle in such a close comparison? Almost like a tie breaker?
Kurt Angle should be a lock for everyone's list of Top 5 Greatest Wrestlers
- Thread starter mrken12
- Start date
And I can respect that, but with the WWE you have all the promo, advertising, public appearances, etc to make. Wouldn't we take that in consideration for Angle in such a close comparison? Almost like a tie breaker?
Promos yes. Advertising and public appearances? What does that have to do with the quality of a pro wrestler?
I will concede that Kurt is probably the best dude ever from being able to switch to genuinely funny comedy promos (while not being a comedy wrestler) to straight up killer in the ring. And if he kept up his pace in 2001, there'd be little debate here. BUT, around 2002-2003, he settled into a formula and basically had the same match with everyone no matter their spot on the card for the next 13 years. Flair levels of sticking to the formula. That knocks him way down the list for me.
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
There is no argument. No wrestling historian is having Rick Martel in their top 10 let alone their top 5.And they damn sure aren't ranking Martel over Angle in any capacity.
Actually there are historians/supreme neckbeards who rank Martel higher as an in ring performer (Chris Zellner and Dylan Hales, Phil Schneider). Again, it depends on criteria, it's not crazy talk
I mean, if someone tells me they have Chris Hero in their top 5 and think he's better than Jerry Lawler I'm gonna think he doesn't know what he's talking about and argue with him till there's nothing else to discuss, and viceversa. But, the argument is there for both of them
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Riley Escobar
GOAT
Honestly, who are these people and why should I take their opinions seriously? I've never heard of any of them in any wrestling capacity whatsoever
In fact they all sound like NXT jobbers
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
They are in one way or another wrestling historians, add Charles from PWO or Irv Mushnik too.
Just like guys like Meltzer, Keller and Steve Yohe, you SHOULDN'T take their opinions more seriously than any other. I was just replying to the fact that "no wrestler historian" would put Martel over Kurt
I have no clue why you guys are acting so defensive over a wrestler that you haven't even watched his peak it seems. I don't think it would change your minds if you watched AWA and Portland Martel, but refusing to even entertaing the thought of 10 years worth of work just because is kinda funny
flashingn1ghts
All Star
that Angle & Benoit vs. Rey & Edge tag team match at No Mercy 2002... greatest match of all time imo
They are in one way or another wrestling historians, add Charles from PWO or Irv Mushnik too.
Just like guys like Meltzer, Keller and Steve Yohe, you SHOULDN'T take their opinions more seriously than any other. I was just replying to the fact that "no wrestler historian" would put Martel over Kurt
I have no clue why you guys are acting so defensive over a wrestler that you haven't even watched his peak it seems. I don't think it would change your minds if you watched AWA and Portland Martel, but refusing to even entertaing the thought of 10 years worth of work just because is kinda funny
Mainly because Messiah introduced this notion that Rick Martel was on the level of Kurt Angle when he's known for having terrible opinions. In terms of impact, influence, legacy, resume, versatility, etc. Rick Martel is not on the same planet as Kurt Angle.
One example of Messiah's garbage opinions:
InstantKlassik
...
I remember watching that match live literally on the edge of my seat, good times. They had a 2/3 falls rematch a few weeks later that's largely forgotten. It too was
Instant classic. If you have the network, it's the 11-7-02 Smackdown. I still have that joint on VHS somewhere.I'm not Messiah. I don't know who Messiah is. I said I could name 20 guys I thought were better than Angle. Then I did. You don't have to agree with it for me to think Martel is better than Kurt Angle. I'm not asking you to think it. It's what I think. Not everyone likes exactly what you like. Stop being a c*nt about it.
Nice that you conveniently left my reasoning and explanation for thinking Andre/Hogan was better than Steamboat/Savage. Why are you such a dikkhead, tho
Nice that you conveniently left my reasoning and explanation for thinking Andre/Hogan was better than Steamboat/Savage. Why are you such a dikkhead, tho
Messiah can be found trolling WrestleZone's comments section. Still talking reckless about Sasha Banks too
Disqus Profile - wz-78492ae8ee0c7aeab730674170296142
Disqus Profile - wz-78492ae8ee0c7aeab730674170296142
flashingn1ghts
All Star
I remember watching that match live literally on the edge of my seat, good times. They had a 2/3 falls rematch a few weeks later that's largely forgotten. It too was
thanks, never seen that one, ill check it out on the network when i get the time
i remember i saw this thinking kurt is with the shyts now and possibly on something to be catching this type of wreck lol
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
This entire conversation is ridiculous.
Kurt's sucked for years. YEARS. 17 year career and, depending on who you ask, 7-10 of them are worthless because he betrayed his own talent and ability (if we're talking about the most talented wrestlers ever, Kurt has to be in the top 5. I've never seen get good immediately the way he did, maybe even including Jumbo) and decided to do EPICS and mini-EPICS with guys like Hernandez third from the top. The entire formula is stupid and, like others have said, has contributed to finishers not meaning a damn thing anymore (see John Cena's US Title challenge for an example of how that works. The AA is essentially a bullshyt move now).
Now, he has some great, GREAT years. Kurt from 2000-2003 or so (up until he had that botched neck surgery that Brock undid with one chairshot) was an excellent wrestler, and he certainly had mini-runs afterward that I enjoyed quite a bit. But let's not act as if he had some decades long sustained run of greatness or anything. He isn't, say, Bret Hart.
@Jmare007 and @stro have been on point through the entire thread, basically. And while I can't speak to the debate about Rick Martel's greatness, since I haven't watched enough of his early work, I CAN say that the post-1996 bias is real on this board. There are plenty of wrestlers from the territory/regional era that I would take over Kurt. For example, if you replace Rick Martel with, say, Jack Brisco and ask me who the better wrestler was, I'm going with Jack Brisco every time, since he was actually at least good for his entire 20 year career.
The day people drop the blinders as it relates to Kurt is the day I rejoice as a wrestling fan.
Kurt's sucked for years. YEARS. 17 year career and, depending on who you ask, 7-10 of them are worthless because he betrayed his own talent and ability (if we're talking about the most talented wrestlers ever, Kurt has to be in the top 5. I've never seen get good immediately the way he did, maybe even including Jumbo) and decided to do EPICS and mini-EPICS with guys like Hernandez third from the top. The entire formula is stupid and, like others have said, has contributed to finishers not meaning a damn thing anymore (see John Cena's US Title challenge for an example of how that works. The AA is essentially a bullshyt move now).
Now, he has some great, GREAT years. Kurt from 2000-2003 or so (up until he had that botched neck surgery that Brock undid with one chairshot) was an excellent wrestler, and he certainly had mini-runs afterward that I enjoyed quite a bit. But let's not act as if he had some decades long sustained run of greatness or anything. He isn't, say, Bret Hart.
@Jmare007 and @stro have been on point through the entire thread, basically. And while I can't speak to the debate about Rick Martel's greatness, since I haven't watched enough of his early work, I CAN say that the post-1996 bias is real on this board. There are plenty of wrestlers from the territory/regional era that I would take over Kurt. For example, if you replace Rick Martel with, say, Jack Brisco and ask me who the better wrestler was, I'm going with Jack Brisco every time, since he was actually at least good for his entire 20 year career.
The day people drop the blinders as it relates to Kurt is the day I rejoice as a wrestling fan.
Not on my list 
Rock
Hogan
Austin
Undertaker
Flair
Rock
Hogan
Austin
Undertaker
Flair