Leaders Of The New School: Young QB hierarchy....

[murksiderock]

I'm gonna update this after the season. In this order:

Mahomes (Y7)
•2-1 Super Bowl, 3-2 AFCCG
•12-3 playoffs (.800)
•.771 reg season (74-22), 13.1 wins/Per17, 6x AFCW champ
•2x champion, 2x MVP, 2x SBMVP, '18 OPOY, 3x All-Pro, 6x Pro Bowl, 2x pass TD leader, '22 pass yards leader

Allen (Y6)
•0-1 AFCCG
•5-4 playoffs (.556)
•.677 reg season (63-30), 11.5 wins/Per17, 4x AFCE champ
•'20 All-Pro, 2x Pro Bowl

Lamar (Y6)
•1-3 playoffs (.250)
•.753 reg season (58-19); 12.8 wins/Per17, 3x AFCN champ
•2x MVP, 2x All-Pro, 3x Pro Bowl, '19 pass TD leader

Burrow (Y4)
•0-1 Super Bowl, 1-1 AFCCG
•5-2 playoffs (.714)
•.558 reg season (29-22-1), 9.5 wins/Per17, 2x AFCN champ
•'21 CPOY, '22 Pro Bowl, '21 comp% leader

Goff (Y8)
•0-1 Super Bowl, 1-0 NFCCG
•3-3 playoffs (.500)
•.564 reg season (66-50-1), 9.6 wins/Per17, 3x NFCW/N champ
•3x Pro Bowl

Dak (Y8)
•2-5 playoffs (.286)
•.640 reg season (73-41), 10.9 wins/Per17, 4x NFCE champ
•'16 OROY, '22 WPMOY, '23 All-Pro, 3x Pro Bowl, '23 pass TDs leader

Hurts (Y4)
• 0-1 Super Bowl, 1-0 NFCCG
•2-3 playoffs (.400)
•.667 reg season (34-17), 11.3 wins/Per17, '22 NFCE champ
•'22 All-Pro, '22 Pro Bowl

Purdy (Y2)
•0-1 NFCCG
•2-1 playoffs (.667)
•.810 reg season (17-4), 13.8 wins/Per17, '23 NFCW champ
•'23 Pro Bowl, '23 pass rtg leader

Baker (Y6)
•2-1 playoffs (.667)
•.465 reg season (40-46), 7.9 wins/Per17, '23 NFCS champ

Stroud (R)
•1-0 playoffs
•.600 reg season (9-6), 10.2 wins/Per17, '23 AFCS champ

Love (Y4)
•1-0 playoffs
•.500 reg season (9-9), 8.5 wins/Per17

Tua (Y4)
•0-1 playoffs
•.627 reg season (32-19), 10.7 wins/Per17
•'23 Pro Bowl, '23 pass yards leader, '22 pass rtg leader

Herbert (Y4)
•0-1 playoffs
•.484 reg season (30-32), 8.2 wins/Per17
•'20 OROY, '21 Pro Bowl

Deshaun (Y7)
•1-2 playoffs (.333)
•.554 reg season (36-29), 9.4 wins/Per17 2x AFCS champ
•3x Pro Bowl, '20 pass yards leader

Kyler (Y5)
•0-1 playoffs
•.431 reg season (28-36-1), 7.3 wins/Per17
•'19 OROY, 2x Pro Bowl

Lawrence (Y3)
•1-1 playoffs (.500)
•.400 reg season (20-30), 6.8 wins/Per17, '22 AFCS champ
•'22 Pro Bowl

 

[murksiderock]

Let me just clear up some things, too:

•this hierarchy is fluid. It can, and should, change as more info is on the board about each guy

•Mahomes is #1 because he's been, by a large margin, the most consistently great player for the duration of his career...

That's where his separation is. And the fact he has a GOAT head coach. Its not a talent thing or a "which guy at his peak" thing, we've seen him get outplayed by three different guys in the playoffs (old ass Brady in the '20 Super Bowl; Allen in the '21 AFC Divisionals; Burrow in the '21 AFC Championship)...

So we know there are a select few players, obviously not a lot, but there are a handful of guys that if they bring their A-game they can go blow for blow with Mahomes, player to player. There really isn't much of a talent gap between Mahomes and Allen/Lamar/Burrow, if there even is one at all...

But not a single other guy on this list, is as consistently high level as Mahomes, and that alone is laudable and where he's distanced himself from the competition. All of these guys are young, Y8 or less, all 29 or younger, if any one of these dudes ever strings along some consistent high level play + winning, the gap will close. Mahomes has competition, bit its up to them to match his consistency...

•Allen, Lamar, Burrow are interchangeable. They are all that close...

•the 4 best youngins are in the AFC but it isn't true the NFC doesn't have QB firepower. Baker in particular, has taken somewhat of a leap if you watched him this year, and I think cats forget how young he is, it does seem like he's been around forever. He could be one of those sleeper cats like Flacco or Eli who is never really an elite QB, but wins games and can be a franchise QB for a decade plus. You know he's gonna play well in the playoffs...

Goff has always been better than people assume. He deserves his flowers...

•Love and CJ, I have a suspicion that both could be much better than what they are now. But we know how this shyt goes, I need to see more. You never know how these guys' careers will actually pan out, it's only been a year. We saw Deshaun come in looking like the next big thing, then derail his own career...

We saw Andrew Luck have a really, really good career but he never quite matched the hype he came in with, he was never the best QB in football and at his best there was a lot of boom and bust with him...

So CJ and Love, I just gotta see more. Really all these guys that are Y4 or less, you gotta see more. You don't really have a consistent line on a guy until Y5 or Y6...

•Justin Herbert is the new Stat Padford. White, huge talent, came in flouted as this generational prospect. Struggled for postseason appearances while in a division with an actual generational quarterback (Padford with Rodgers, Herbert with Mahomes). He's Just A Guy, albeit a really talented one, but I've seen this Herbert story before and his name was Stat Padford...

Which means, with the right coach and right timing, you could win a Super Bowl with him. But you better time it perfectly for his career because there's alot of Stat Padford, Detroit-esque years upcoming...

Speaking of Padford, I'm getting real sick of NFL Media gassing dude. 15 years, 5 playoff runs, just 4 wins. That all came in one year, which reminds me of another overrated quarterback, Eli, who all his playoff victories came the years he won it all, never got another victory any other season. Missed the playoffs more than he made him. He and Padford by that measure are Same Guy, and I'm telling you, more ways than one, Herbert is also Same Guy...

•there's a little bit of LA Goff narrative going on with Tua that I don't like. The biggest risk is injury, you can absolutely win big if he's your quarterback. If he ever gets booted from Miami, watch him resurrect his reputation on someone else's franchise...

•Trevor Lawrence is worse than Just A Guy. There's potential there but color me unimpressed. Same with Kyler...

Deshaun, this is it. I think the lean is that he'll never regain his form, I mostly believe that, but this next season will put it in stone. Either that Old Deshaun is in there somewhere, or he isn't...

 

[Regular_P]

Dap for the Padford hate/facts. I'm tired of all these bozos retrofitting his time in Detroit like he was actually amazing the entire time. He was good but erratic. Never a guy who could elevate a franchise like Allen, Burrow, Jackson and Mahomes.

Two career Pro Bowls; never been an All-Pro. Was mediocre to poor in two of the three playoff games with Detroit. One Super Bowl run with a stacked roster does not make you a Hall of Famer.

For the list, I disagree on Tua. I think he's buns and if he didn't have Tyreek and Waddle, he'd look like Jimmy G on the Raiders.

 

[KidJSoul]

Good post

1. You might be wrong about Herbert breh. Give him a competent head coach

 

[murksiderock]

Dap for the Padford hate/facts. I'm tired of all these bozos retrofitting his time in Detroit like he was actually amazing the entire time. He was good but erratic. Never a guy who could elevate a franchise like Allen, Burrow, Jackson and Mahomes.

Two career Pro Bowls; never been an All-Pro. Was mediocre to poor in two of the three playoff games with Detroit. One Super Bowl run with a stacked roster does not make you a Hall of Famer.

For the list, I disagree on Tua. I think he's buns and if he didn't have Tyreek and Waddle, he'd look like Jimmy G on the Raiders.

Bro I listened to Cowherd the other day call Padford "one of the best quarterbacks of his generation". Like, he's been around 15 years, whose generation are we talking about? Because it ain't the one that had the actual generational quarterback dominating his division, and it really isn't this one, either...

As you said at his best, he wasn't elevating weak support around him the way Lamar and Allen have done, he wasnt that guy. The revisionism surrounding his time in Detroit by NFL Media is truly remarkable; no one ever thought he was garbage. He's not a Hall Of Fame quarterback though, this romanticism of his career is really bothering me ...

In many ways he's had Eli's career. We know Eli will get into Canton eventually because of his name, his franchise, and the mystique surrounding those lightning in a bottle Super Bowl runs. But we also know Eli was not a Hall Of Fame football player...

You may be right on Tua...

Good post

1. You might be wrong about Herbert breh. Give him a competent head coach

I don't know man, Herbert's record in money time is not good, he does not play well in tight games. He has time to reverse that narrative, of course, but that's more than a coach problem..

 

[Stone]

Stafford won a bowl the literal second he played for a competent organization. Throw for Throw you can put his tape against any QB in the league.

 

[DropTopDoc]

Great thread will be following, i think Herbert has the potential to be great with competent coaching,

Not sure what Lawerence is because again I’ll say coaching

This thread reminds me of the one i did as far as 10 year career, playoff appearances, pro bowls

 

[Ain't That Something]

Allan did not outplay Mahommes in that AFC divisional round. I need you to stop that. It was a literal back and forth with Mahommes putting them in field goal range with 13 seconds to go. GTFO

One could argue Mahommoes outplayed Brady in that Superbowl also with no O-line and his receivers dropping shyt that was hittjng them between the numbers.

 

[EPS Plus]

Is Allen really all that?

 

[Blessings]

Is Allen really all that?

He is but they overrate him for almost beating Mahomes in the playoffs

 

[Trav]

Dap for the Padford hate/facts. I'm tired of all these bozos retrofitting his time in Detroit like he was actually amazing the entire time. He was good but erratic. Never a guy who could elevate a franchise like Allen, Burrow, Jackson and Mahomes.

Two career Pro Bowls; never been an All-Pro. Was mediocre to poor in two of the three playoff games with Detroit. One Super Bowl run with a stacked roster does not make you a Hall of Famer.

For the list, I disagree on Tua. I think he's buns and if he didn't have Tyreek and Waddle, he'd look like Jimmy G on the Raiders.

Look at this Hatin' ass nicca

 

[Trav]

Allen over Burrow? No. Goff and Baker this high or even included on the list? Ehh. And are we still considering Kyler & Deshaun a part of the younger crop? For Deshaun at least, it seems like that train has been fully derailed.

 

[B1G_controversy]

I would take Stroud and Love over Hurts

Sorry, not sorry

 

[Ain't That Something]

Allen over Burrow? No.

Especially after Burrow embarrassed him at home and also beat the Chiefs at theit homefield in the offs and been to a Superbowl

 

[Clark Wayne]

It will be close between him and Puka but CJ will likely win OROY as well. That last game against the Colts probably pushed him over the edge.

Lawrence is the big what if to me. I knew he wasn’t 100% but the Jags collapsed hard this year and he didn’t play that good. Now you got CJ looking like he can take that division.

Add in the Colts with a healthy AR and Steichen as the head coach.

I still think Herbert can turn it around with the right coach. That being said, say that the Chargers do get Harbaugh and Herbert still underachives, then he will literally be Rivers 2.0.

Mahomes is already cemented. Lamar and Josh have something to prove with these upcoming games.

Funny enough, Burrow has the injury concern at the moment. I don’t think he’s had one healthy training camp yet.

Higgins might be gone too.

Hurts with a good OC I think will bounce back.