You call this thread the young QB hierarchy, but then say you can't properly judge a guy until year 5. It doesn't make sense.
U should Just leave the young guys off then and call it the NFL QB hierarchy
Leaders Of The New School: Young QB hierarchy....
- Thread starter murksiderock
- Start date
You call this thread the young QB hierarchy, but then say you can't properly judge a guy until year 5. It doesn't make sense.
U should Just leave the young guys off then and call it the NFL QB hierarchy
murksiderock
Superstar
This ain't The Combine. It's a results-oriented business and I'm consistent when I talk about basketball players too, show me the results...Stafford won a bowl the literal second he played for a competent organization. Throw for Throw you can put his tape against any QB in the league.
I don't care who has the cleanest footwork or the most "wow" throws or wettest jumper. Where is the performance?
He's missed the playoffs 10x in 15 years. In those 5 playoff appearances he's been one and done 4x, two of those occasions have come in LA. You also have the Favre shyt with him where he can go interception happy. He's a really, really good player, he's OG Herbert. I like him but I saw him for too long to anoint him off one legit playoff run...
!At the very least that game was a draw. You watched that game like I did, both were in their bag but Allen made more plays, this gets overshadowed because of Mahomes driving that field in 13 seconds...
If we let you tell it Mahomes has never been outplayed. I'm not allowing that shyt over here fam
...Allen, Burrow, and Lamar are interchangeable. There's no bulletproof case for putting any of these guys over the others, as we stand here 1/19/24...
Deshaun's train is derailed but he's the same draft class as Mahomes, who is still a young quarterback. There's various ways to do this, I considered excluding the rookie (Stroud) and 1-year starters (Love and Purdy too, who both just started their first FULL years like Stroud). But then I'd have all these guys from Love's draft class, who I believe he is simply better than most of them, didn't seem practical to exclude him. But there are different ways to Tier out "young players"...
Ultimately if you haven't reached a decade in you're a young guy, QB is a position guys play 15-20 years routinely...
Herbert still needs another year or 2. Charger fans have been calling for the last coach's head for what seems to be at least 2 years.
Same for Lawrence. He had a hot stretch showing what he could/should be but obviously tapered off. It's likely he'll never meet the hype but he probably get to that Goff level.
The Stafford love is a pendulum swing from the "He's Trash" takes that went on for a decade-plus. He was a good-to-very good but not elite QB on arguably the worst-run team in the league. But he's better than Eli. The 00-10s Giants and Lions are not on the same planet regarding franchise competence.
Same for Lawrence. He had a hot stretch showing what he could/should be but obviously tapered off. It's likely he'll never meet the hype but he probably get to that Goff level.
The Stafford love is a pendulum swing from the "He's Trash" takes that went on for a decade-plus. He was a good-to-very good but not elite QB on arguably the worst-run team in the league. But he's better than Eli. The 00-10s Giants and Lions are not on the same planet regarding franchise competence.
DropTopDoc
20/20 Vision With my Buffs On
@murksiderock
I will say this, for what it’s worth, if Matt and megatron are on this iteration of the lions, they become a force, some of the lions issues was Matt, and some of it was organizational incompetence, and it’s so hard to separate the two, they clip Caldwell when he actually had them looking good, now some lions fans will say he was an issue, i can call it but regardless the lions never did Matt a favor, ironically he reminds me of uga under mark (who he played for) he was doing about all you could ask for, and eventually they needed someone else to get them over the hump, I’m interested if Caldwell was the key (idk what his stats look like under him but I’m sure he probably looked decent)
I will say this, for what it’s worth, if Matt and megatron are on this iteration of the lions, they become a force, some of the lions issues was Matt, and some of it was organizational incompetence, and it’s so hard to separate the two, they clip Caldwell when he actually had them looking good, now some lions fans will say he was an issue, i can call it but regardless the lions never did Matt a favor, ironically he reminds me of uga under mark (who he played for) he was doing about all you could ask for, and eventually they needed someone else to get them over the hump, I’m interested if Caldwell was the key (idk what his stats look like under him but I’m sure he probably looked decent)
A Year 5/6 quarterback is still young. Depending on his birthday and year regarding his grade school path and whether he did 3 or 4 years in D1 he's still 26-28. QB is the only position where the game gets easier after 30 and can still anticipate 5+ years of the current level of play.
nikka had Calvin Johnson and the number 1 defense in the league and did nothing. He won a bowl the second he played for an SB team that added even more All Pros and he still did his best the try to throw it away. Throw for throw he aint do shyt when given chance after chance to make shyt shake in Detroit. Lions looked pretty competent sending him home last weekStafford won a bowl the literal second he played for a competent organization. Throw for Throw you can put his tape against any QB in the league.
.Shouldnt we cap this at year 5? Mahomes, Goff, Allen, Lamar, and Dak are just entering or firmly in the middle of their respective primes. When I saw "young QB" it was instantly CJ then everybody else in my head. Didnt even think about any of those dudes.
Th3G3ntleman
Superstar
Hurts being that high with an inability to throw any sort of bullet pass is embarrassing.
Bro I listened to Cowherd the other day call Padford "one of the best quarterbacks of his generation". Like, he's been around 15 years, whose generation are we talking about? Because it ain't the one that had the actual generational quarterback dominating his division, and it really isn't this one, either...
As you said at his best, he wasn't elevating weak support around him the way Lamar and Allen have done, he wasnt that guy. The revisionism surrounding his time in Detroit by NFL Media is truly remarkable; no one ever thought he was garbage. He's not a Hall Of Fame quarterback though, this romanticism of his career is really bothering me
In many ways he's had Eli's career. We know Eli will get into Canton eventually because of his name, his franchise, and the mystique surrounding those lightning in a bottle Super Bowl runs. But we also know Eli was not a Hall Of Fame football player...
You may be right on Tua...
I don't know man, Herbert's record in money time is not good, he does not play well in tight games. He has time to reverse that narrative, of course, but that's more than a coach problem..
Breh do you not remebr the drive Heerberr had at the end of this game?
Did you not see this game where Herbert and the Chargers scored 5 straight TD drives to finish the game? But the defense somehow did not make a single stop?
Against the Packers QJ dropped a game-winner late
Herbert isn't perfect but he's shown that he can make plays. But his coach is literally the worst in the league and sometimes you see BS like the above with Quentin Johnson since his receivers are always injured
murksiderock
Superstar
It's close. The bar isn't very high with Hurts, so another year of those two outplayed him, they'd easily go over him, because if I'm just doing a scouting drill I think both are better football players than Hurts. But the results have to match the skill...
I'll say again, there's a thin margin with Allen, Lamar, Burrow. You can make the argument for either...
Allen is the only one if the three with no injury concern, he's the only one of the three I'm consistently in the playoffs with. Burrow has been hurt + missed the playoffs two of his four seasons. Its alarming...
Allen is healthy and available every single playoffs. Ultimately it's a virtual tie, Burrow did outplay him on his own field and, small sample size, but so far when we get Healthy Burrow his team at minimum is a Final Four team...
There's solid arguments to be made for both (as well as Lamar)!
Mahomes is at the top right now and is cemented as Canton-bound and one if the greatest players ever. I don't think its cemented at all that he finishes his career as the best QB of his generation, first of all there's a whole lot of football ahead for all these guys. Remember, QBs routinely play up to 20 years, none of these guys are beyond Y8. Stat Padford got a Lombardi in Y13 and we're watching in real time how that has flipped the narrative on his career...
These guys all have almost 10 or more years in front of them. So you add this with the fact, for guys in here who evaluate players on "skill" and "talent" more than results, there isn't much of a skill gap between Mahomes and the other elite guys. It's not a shoo-in that he maintains his stature as better than everyone else...
I do think a Hurts bounce-back is possible but if he's that dependent on who the OC is, what does that truly say about him?
Lotta Herbert fans in this thread
...No, because I didn't make a hierarchy including every QB. I didn't put old ass guys like Rodgers or Cousins or Russ or Padford here. I didn't put garbage young guys like Pickett or Wilson on here. It's Leaders Of The New School, key words being "leaders", and "new school"...
I also pointedly stated its a fluid hierarchy, none of these guys are etched in stone or bolted in place...
Bboystyle
Bang Bang Packers gang!
Good post
Burrow has never even scored more than 27 in a playoff game despite having one of the best receiving corps in the league
Allen hung 36 on Mahomes in arrowhead
How does this even work from a regulation standpoint? I've always wondered this.
