LeBron keeps cookin defenders with this weak ass move

[CarltonJunior]

I see your point and I would like to challenge it respectfully. Is transferrability really the standard in basketball? Your individual traits play a major role in your game. For example, how many 6' guards are working with Dream? How many of them do you see doing the sky hook? Conversely, are Embiied and Porzingis working with Nash? The Dream Shake itself, while more aestetically pleasing, is pretty simple and from your couch looks like it should be easier to guard than it is. Same with the Smitty. You see guys talking about how pump fakes are in the scouting report and yet they still find themselves going for them. The issue that so many great players have in relating to other players or coaching is that you can't teach what they do. Or rather, others can't replicate it.

The Dream Shake is really a series of moves based on reading and reacting to your opponent. Kobe is an example of someone who incorporated it into his game as a guard, and spent time honing his game with Hakeem in the offseason.

You're right in that great players can't always teach you to be great, but that's not really the argument, we already established LeBron is great, the argument was that this move in particular I don't believe is a fundamentally sound or effective move. It's working because LeBron is doing it. Hence why I mentioned Joe Johnson and CP3 because they have more effective versions of this move, and notice that CP3 is a 6 foot guard with none of the attribute LeBron has. If he did it the same way LeBron is doing it, he'd be punished for it.

 

[Karume]

You're accidentally correct.

no I was intentionally correct

 

[Karume]

The Dream Shake is really a series of moves based on reading and reacting to your opponent. Kobe is an example of someone who incorporated it into his game as a guard, and spent time honing his game with Hakeem in the offseason.

You're right in that great players can't always teach you to be great, but that's not really the argument, we already established LeBron is great, the argument was that this move in particular I don't believe is a fundamentally sound or effective move. It's working because LeBron is doing it. Hence why I mentioned Joe Johnson and CP3 because they have more effective versions of this move, and notice that CP3 is a 6 foot guard with none of the attribute LeBron has. If he did it the same way LeBron is doing it, he'd be punished for it.

I do believe that foundational moves and techniques should be taught as a basis. however it is nonsensical to say that something isnt effective when it so clearly is.. now is it something that is universally applicable? of course not, and as such isn't something to be taught to beginners.

 

[staticshock]

Have you been drunk since 2005?

LBJ literally has the most playoff game-winners in NBA history. The most buzzer-beaters in NBA history. The greatest Game 7 scoring average in NBA history. The greatest elimination game scoring average in NBA history. Has the "final 25 points" game against the Pistons, scoring the final 10 points against the Bulls, a bunch of games he took over down the stretch against the Celtics, masterfully closing out the Spurs in Game 7 of the Finals, scoring 8 of the final 11 points in Game 7 against the Warriors in the Finals, and more clutch-dominating games in the 2018 postseason than you can count....but you think he can't get timely buckets.

Name ONE player other than MJ who has a record of getting timely playoff buckets that even close to compares to LBJ, much less surpasses it.





His back was injured that year and then on top of that Kyrie and Love got hurt so everything fell on him and he was fatigued as hell for the entire playoffs. That was his worst shooting year the ENTIRE season. 30% from three in the regular season and 23% in the playoffs, he was OBVIOUSLY hurting out there.

And yet still hit when it mattered.




Now, why'd you JUST single out 2015, when he was hurt and on a fukked-up squad, and leave out every other year?

2013 playoffs: 43% from 16-23 and 38% from 3pt
2014 playoffs: 42% from 16-23 and 41% from 3pt
2016 playoffs: 46% from 16-23 and 34% from 3pt
2017 playoffs: 49% from 16-23 and 41% from 3pt
2018 playoffs: 46% from 16-23 and 34% from 3pt

Overall about 45-46% on long twos and 37-38% on threes over five postseasons. Those are FANTASTIC numbers dawg. Your argument is deaded.

you’re responding to a troll bruh.

Gotta put him in the goofy category with sccit and swag when it comes to anything LeBron related

 

[murksiderock]

If the only reason that your move works is because you're LeBron, then is the move good? Not LeBron, the move itself? Guys go to learn from Hakeem and Nash because they have move and elements in their game that everyone can incorporate because it's based on fundamental skill and translatable. If LeBron taught other players to do this, would it be effective? I don't think it would.

Maybe it can't be taught to someone else, I get your point. But it doesn't make LeBron easy to guard even though we know it's coming, which was the original basis of this thread...

And yet Kobe for all his beauty and skills shot 36.7% FG (69-188), 23.6% 3FG (13-55) in the 4th quarter of all the NBA finals he was in. In fact, in the 7 finals he played in total the man shot 41% and 31% from 3.
So much beauty...

Exactly, It's hard to find more 1 sided head to head match-ups between stars than Lebron vs Kobe.

The thing is players are great for a variety of different reasons. All the things that made one guy great, don't necessarily apply to the next guy, because a ton of things apply to greatness...

With Kobe, notice how when people flaunt his greatness, it never is about what he did in The Finals, and only rarely is about his postseason resume at all (every once in awhile someone will bring up a series or two that he went off). It's always about the scoring runs he went on in the regular season, or the 5 total rings, or the technical soundness of his game, or the number of contemporaries that favored him...

And all that is relevant because it all counts and matters, but the Kobe vs LeBron thing was clear early that you were working with a different level of animal in LeBron. Kobe was a beast and LeBron had to catch up to him, but it was evident pretty quickly there was something different with Bron...

I wasn't even a LeBron Stan until after the '13 Finals, and in his first run in Clevelabd, Melo was my favorite player and I think I also favored KG and Kobe to LeBron. Even 10, 11, 12 years ago though, we had already seen a decade plus of Kobe. I always said LeBron was different...

That said, I've also always believed that if Kobe and Bron met in The Finals just once, Kobe would have won. He was on a different mission, more hungry, the type of hunger that Bron didn't fully actualize until after '11. Kobe's 2008-10 comeback is what sealed his legacy, and we knew what he was playing for. So I think LeBron may have outplayed him, but his Miami moment may have happened sooner, and Kobe probably woulda had a different intensity in crunch time. Plus, those Cavs were exposed for their weak supporting cast in repeated playoffs, Lakers were just built better and more talented top to bottom...

Now, if they played twice, like if Cavs/Lakers met in '09 and '10? Or if Lakers met LeBron in '11? He wasn't losing to the same team twice in a row. So I think if they met twice it woulda been a 1-1 split, but if they only played once, Kobe was on a different mission at that point in time...

Woulda been fun to watch and all of us wanted it. He routinely outplayed Bean H2H, though...

KD is another guy who gets a ton of fluff when compared to Bron and he also was routinely getting spanked before he went to GS. This is to take nothing away from Durant but this notion that he's an equal to LeBron only came about once he left OKC, I believe his record was actually worse than Kobe's...

 

[FTBS]

The Dream Shake is really a series of moves based on reading and reacting to your opponent. Kobe is an example of someone who incorporated it into his game as a guard, and spent time honing his game with Hakeem in the offseason.

You're right in that great players can't always teach you to be great, but that's not really the argument, we already established LeBron is great, the argument was that this move in particular I don't believe is a fundamentally sound or effective move. It's working because LeBron is doing it. Hence why I mentioned Joe Johnson and CP3 because they have more effective versions of this move, and notice that CP3 is a 6 foot guard with none of the attribute LeBron has. If he did it the same way LeBron is doing it, he'd be punished for it.

My point was that effectiveness is dependent on factors beyond the move itself. That's why I mentioned 6'0 guards and Hakeem. Pretty sure they could learn all the moves and do them just as well or even better but it's not gonna be effective because they are 6'0. Pretty sure CP3 can do the sky hook or learn it pretty easily, but how effective would it be for him in a game? Can you base an offense around him doing that? Pretty sure he could do all the stuff Shaq did. But at his size, it's just not gonna be effective. CP3 and Joe don't have all of the things than Bron does that makes it effective for him so they can't do it how he does it and that's pretty much the case with every move, which is my overall point. You look at Reggie's shot. It's not fundamentally sound. Other players wouldn't be able to replicate it, but for whatever reason it worked for him. I think we often get caught up in aestetics and how something appears from a far, rather than actual effectiveness.

 

[CarltonJunior]

Maybe it can't be taught to someone else, I get your point. But it doesn't make LeBron easy to guard even though we know it's coming, which was the original basis of this thread...

That was not the original basis of this thread, the original basis of this thread was that the move is weak but LeBron is putting in work with it. And yall are saying the move itself isnt weak cuz it's working, but I think that's false. The move is trash, but it works because it's LeBron.

 

[Karume]

That was not the original basis of this thread, the original basis of this thread was that the move is weak but LeBron is putting in work with it. And yall are saying the move itself isnt weak cuz it's working, but I think that's false. The move is trash, but it works because it's LeBron.

how are you defining trash? I ask because from some in the thread they are defining trash as not being pretty. some seem to be defining trash as something not universally applicable.

 

[Shadow King]

That was not the original basis of this thread, the original basis of this thread was that the move is weak but LeBron is putting in work with it. And yall are saying the move itself isnt weak cuz it's working, but I think that's false. The move is trash, but it works because it's LeBron.

Every move works because a player is who they are though.

 

[CarltonJunior]

I'm done with yall, yall win

 

[killacal]

Bron is different than most NBA players cause he has very thick ankles and calves. He probably has thicker bones too. That could be what allows him to carry more mass but not look that big.

A lot of times guys can weigh more but look similar to someone else in build because of these skeletal features that we can't see on the outside.

Brons got tree trunks for legs
That's why his shoe is a boot

 

[Swagnificent]

It’s not high standards, it’s the fact that’s your only standard is for every player to be a hybrid of Tracy McGrady ... too bad he was getting fukked up in the 1st round always

And why would it matter if he never advanced past the first round? Did your livelihood depend on that? If T-Mac made it past the 1st round, were you getting paid?

I could care less who wins any particular game or series. I watch sports for the same reason I watch movies. I simply want to be entertained. The spectacle is more important than the result. So yes I'll watch a hundred T-Macs play basketball even if they never make it past the first round before I watch one Bill Russell win 11 championships.

 

[Theo Penn]

That shyt looks like Booker T shooting a 3

 

[Swagnificent]

pistons game plan was to let a certain player keep shooting the ball.

Yeah. Shaq.

They single covered him that entire series while they double and triple teammed Kobe every play trying to get the ball out of his hands. Kobe however kept shooting and missing which is why the Lakers lost.

Pistons used Kobe's aggressiveness against him that series.

 

[Trojan 24]

Brons got tree trunks for legs
That's why his shoe is a boot

Bought my nephew some Brons after he signed, and he said "Why they so heavy?"