Lupe lacks something what is it?

[MillionMills]

Lupe is in my top 10 for sure and The Cool is something I'll listen to forever

My only knocks on Lupe are his voice, beats and hooks.

His lyricism, metaphors, concepts, song-writing are all A+, not even debatable

But his voice sometimes doesnt carry strongly, it kind of fades off behind the music sometimes. He doesnt have that Ludacris voice where a simple line can sound dope because of the way he says it.

His beat choice sometimes isnt good and his hooks are not memorable.

Thats about it. He's a top tier rapper one of the best to do it

 

[B-Mint94]

I hope yall aint repping Aesop Rock now but were nowhere to be found when he dropped one of the best albums this year

I actually quite liked that new Aesop album

 

[Yinny]

People give him too much credit for being "smart" and conscious. Plenty of cats, cue Mos Def, Common, etc made absolutely amazing music and while yes, they never reached top tiers in terms of acclaim, still widely respected.

Lupe isn't as interesting as people try to make him out to be. He's certainly talented, I can listen to a good number of his songs but there's never a moment where he comes on and I'm like, Whoa

 

[The Ruler 09]

People give him too much credit for being "smart" and conscious. Plenty of cats, cue Mos Def, Common, etc made absolutely amazing music and while yes, they never reached top tiers in terms of acclaim, still widely respected.

Lupe isn't as interesting as people try to make him out to be. I can listen to a good number of his songs but there's never a moment where he comes on and I'm like, Whoa

That's the thing, it's like he's a latter version to stan but people have already done similar more effectively than him previously, I would take Common's wordplay on Can I Borrow A Dollar and Resurrection over any of Lupe's, those 2 albums over any Lupe's too and that's without mentioning Be, One Day It Will All Make Sense etc, there's plenty of people who fukk with artists like Common, Mos/Kweli, even GZA who had wordplay in music but don't rate Lupe as highly.

 

[NoHalfWay]

there's plenty of people who fukk with artists like Common, Mos/Kweli, even GZA who had wordplay in music but don'r rate Lupe as highly.

That's mostly a generational gap thing. Lupe doesn't have the luxury of being a 90's rapper.

And Common on Can I Borrow A Dollar is NOT a superior emcee to Lupe. But after that he is widely regarded as Chi-town's GOAT lyricist.

Talib

 

[feelosofer]

He lacks nothing the problem is that his word play and rhymes schemes are very complicated and are things that you have to listen to multiple times to catch everything.

 

[The Ruler 09]

That's mostly a generational gap thing. Lupe doesn't have the luxury of being a 90's rapper.

And Common on Can I Borrow A Dollar is NOT a superior emcee to Lupe. But after that he is widely regarded as Chi-town's GOAT lyricist.

Talib

I'd take the BlackStar album over any Lupe album, I'd imagine many others would too, Reflection Eternal, Quality, A Beautiful Struggle too.

And I disagree with that completely, I think Common was an excellent MC on Can I Borrow A Dollar, have a thread about Can I Borrow A Dollar On here, lyrically with his wordplay he was killing it, even MC wise he's entertained me much more than Lupe ever has on that album, killed it with the wordplay, it was witty, fly, humorous, flavourful, great work to me, but that's what I'm saying, people gonna have different opinion's so I don't catch feelings about people's opinion's about Common's ish or anything else, it's just a difference of opinion.

Sometimes with some Lupe fans though it's seems to be a desire to tear other conscious or lyrical MC's down to bring him up to though which seems kind of odd to me, it seems a bit like insecurity, and this more recent thing of being a stan base and a #teamlupe (or whoever else) stan rather than just being about the music and the quality of the music.

Soul On Ice by Ras Kass impressed me lyrically more than any Lupe album, Pharaoh on The Extinction Agenda, Bis on several projects and even pre album ish, so I don't really get overhyping Lupe's ish, plus when analysing some of it isn't really that good to me in several aspects.

I don't think it's generational, I don't care when Lupe was from, I have some rapper's who debuted in the 2000's ahead of some of the 90's rappers. Stylistically there may be something to that though, the flows Lupe using and delivery is in the trend at times, to me that isn't going to translate well in terms of timelessness overall but again subjective.

 

[The Ruler 09]

The coli will collapse in mad rage when/if he ever drops those 3 albums.

I don't think they will, many people won't hear it and if people consider that he dropped some great albums would imagine they would feel it and give props, don't really see much irrational hate for Lupe, mainly just opinions about the music, I know I'd welcome any great music from him, or anybody else, Hip Hop can always do with more great music...

 

[Mowgli]

He does to much with his goofy ass metaphors.

Make yourself understandable

 

[NoHalfWay]

Sometimes with some Lupe fans though it's seems to be a desire to tear other conscious or lyrical MC's down to bring him up to though which seems kind of odd to me, it seems a bit like insecurity, and this more recent thing of being a stan base and a #teamlupe (or whoever else) stan rather than just being about the music and the quality of the music.

You've basically described every big rapper with a Stan base, Lupe's is nothing special. shyt, his stans aren't even close to top 5 worst on this forum. Have you ever seen Nas vs Jay stan wars before, G-Unit, and Drake stans?

Like you said, everything else is opinions.

 

[Jack Don the G]

Not lacking in knowledge at all, just stated my opinion. I've heard all of Lupe's material.

Lol people have different opinions, you may think those albums are classic but many disagree.

You actually misunderstood quite a bit of what I said, I was speaking not just about lyrics but about MC'in, stylistic choices in terms of delivery and a lot more.

As you can see from the thread there's a lot of people who have heard Lupe's music who feel the same, this isn't a coincidence or people hating, it's because they genuinely feel the same in most cases, there's a reason the critique of Lupe is what it is and also there's a reason he's not in most people's top 10 lists and mostly would be on just hardcore Lupe fans, that's because in my and many other opinion he lacks something, you may feel he doesn't and that's perfectly fine but many do.

And it just seems you got emotional for no reason lol, it's just my opinion, you don't need to worry about it, can agree to disagree and keep it moving.

I dont think I have misunderstood you one bit, I clearly got you dont like "puzzle rap"

You didnt like it. Fine.

and I also get why you and others are not that into it.

I also get some people will feel he is lacking in other areas too. Totally fine. I talked about his voice not being strong in a previous post already.

You talk about his stylistic choices in terms of delivery.

• What do you actually think is lackning here or what do you think is weak? How he uses his voice? His flow?
• In your opinion, what should he do differently?

"There's reason he's not in most people's top 10"

Yeah, I also understand this. He's not for everyone.

But most of my argument from the post you quoted was not about this.

I called you out on your ignorance. I quoted the parts I thought you misrepresented Lupe.
So I think its you that are misunderstanding me and not the other way around that you are trying to make it out.

So lets take this again so you get what Im trying to point out.

Ill go through every talking point and quote that I was addressing and we'll see that your "opinion" is some what flawed.

When you say: " he seems to be alienating those fans in some ways and creating for a small core fan base who like puzzle raps and going on Rap Genius to read about obscure references. I think there's a balance that can be achieved, infact I know there is, where he could satisfy both, I hope he does it, we'll see. Am willing to listen"

You are clearly show you don't listen to Lupes music closely.

He does balance it, as I pointed out in my post.

On the two albums before Tetsou (FL2, and Lasers) he had two of his biggest hits, Battle scars and The show must goes on.
He also droped Old School Love with Ed fukking Sheeran in 2013. All of them hits, with mass appeal and no "puzzle rap" in them.
He released Mission a song about Cancer in 2014.

He released several other tracks that where "straight forward" between FL2 and Tetsou.
And they where also diverse ranging topics, types of beats and flows. All these are pretty close to the Tetsou release.

But this clearly shows he is maintaining a balance. Which you said hes not doing, which shows that you made your judgment of Tetsou alone.

You said: "but I do fear for the path he's on because it's limited and getting gassed by a small hardcore fan base I don't think overall will help him"

I think I have addressed this already.

You said: "I think he's lacking great albums, replay value, songwriting".

You where sneaky and pointed out that many people will not call F&L and The Cool classics, that's okay with me. But you said hes lacking great albums. I think its fair to say they are UNIVERSALLY considered GREAT albums.

Having two great albums is not lacking in great albums in my opinion. You can try saying other people don't feel they are great. And they are entitled to that opinion. But when they are universally hailed by critics, fans and also loved by many listeners out side of rap I think its fair to say that not calling them great is kind of weak with out backing it up.

If you are standing your ground and not admitting that your statement is exaggerated and still think they are only "okay" or weak albums I urge you to post a in depth analys of why you think so.
I wont buy cheap short arguments about "puzzle rap" and "stylistic choices of delivery". Show me that you actually listened to the albums and give examples from songs where you think he is not fulfilling his potential and that drags down the album from being great.

You can still fall back on your "opinon" argument in your defense of replay value. But once more we have to analys things deeper and not rely on "feelings". If he truly lack in replay value and has alienated himself from the regular listener but making music only for his "hard core puzzle rap fans", how come he has 2.412,813 unique listeners every MONTH on Spotify alone? And having songs from every single album on his top 10 most played song list.

You cant claim Lupe lack songwriting skills and not expect to be challenged on it. Its like being on a movie message board and just post: "Tarantino sucks at writing dialog".

Its your opinion, sure. But then you have to back it up. You have always talked about your hip hop knowledge on here so why not show it. Tell us what Lupe is lacking?
And dont bring up any pseudo intellectual or puzzle rap arguments since that got more to do with style then actual songwriting skills.

Since you have listened to all of Lupes music you should have no problems with talking about his rhyme schemes, metaphors, punchlines, and story telling abilities.

But since you're going to break down why F&L and The Cool are not great ill make it easy for you.
Ill give examples of Lupe songs and you can just point out whats lacking in those lyrics.
Lets take songs from F&L that are quite straight forward so you don't have to analys any "puzzles".

He say She say, Hurt me soul and why not American Terrorist since its close to K-Rino territory subject matter.

Three different styles of songwriting. Story telling, Somewhat introspective and finally social commentary.





"And it just seems you got emotional for no reason lol"

Haha! Classic Coli Logic. @SirBiatch must be proud of you using his trademark response.

When ever people are confronted with arguments backed up with in depth analysis that they are not used to, they always fall back on the emotional card.

We squashed our differences before, so I have no interest in start throwing dirt again. So stop it with the attitude.

We have mush in common and we both love talking hip hop. I challenged you on your opinion. That's it.

If I smell bullshyt I will call it out. Some of your opinion seemed to lack logic or wasn't explained. There for I bullet pointed the arguments from your post I wanted you to clarify. I had no problem with the rest of your post.

I hope you take this discussion seriously and dont fold now. Its rare with in depth analys on rappers on this board these days so why not take it.
Im not on here for the rumors, beef or trolling. I want to talk hip hop, so when I disagree with someone on a topic I have interest in, I challenge them to see how they are thinking.

This is not about proving anyone wrong or winning an argument, all I want to know is how you where thinking when you made those statements.

Im going on a five day vacation tomorrow so I hope when I get back there's a serious response and no more talking.

Peace.

 

[jamaicaiwonder1993]

People give him too much credit for being "smart" and conscious. Plenty of cats, cue Mos Def, Common, etc made absolutely amazing music and while yes, they never reached top tiers in terms of acclaim, still widely respected.

Lupe isn't as interesting as people try to make him out to be. He's certainly talented, I can listen to a good number of his songs but there's never a moment where he comes on and I'm like, Whoa

Lupe differs from those cats in the sense that he can rap about the streets and then throw in karate, anime, cultural foods,etc references to add more to his already conscious music

 

[George's Dilemma]

Very talented artist, but his mic presence and voice don't hold my attention for very long. Add that along with the condescending I'm smarter than you persona and it makes for being an unbearable experience to listen to some of his work.

 

[The Ruler 09]

I dont think I have misunderstood you one bit, I clearly got you dont like "puzzle rap" and I also get why you and others are not that into it.

I also get some people will feel he is lacking in other areas too. Totally fine. I talked about his voice not being strong in a previous post already.

You talk about his stylistic choices in terms of delivery.

• What do you actually think is lackning here or what do you think is weak? How he uses his voice? His flow?
• In your opinion, what should he do differently?

"There's reason he's not in most people's top 10"

Yeah, I also understand this. He's not for everyone.

But most of my argument from the post you quoted was not about this.

I called you out on your ignorance. I quoted the parts I thought you misrepresented Lupe.
So I think its you that are misunderstanding me and not the other way around that you are trying to make it out.

So lets take this again so you get what Im trying to point out.

Ill go through every talking point and quote that I was addressing and we'll see that your "opinion" is some what flawed.

When you say: " he seems to be alienating those fans in some ways and creating for a small core fan base who like puzzle raps and going on Rap Genius to read about obscure references. I think there's a balance that can be achieved, infact I know there is, where he could satisfy both, I hope he does it, we'll see. Am willing to listen"

You are clearly show you don't listen to Lupes music closely.

He does balance it, as I pointed out in my post.

On the two albums before Tetsou (FL2, and Lasers) he had two of his biggest hits, Battle scars and The show must goes on.
He also droped Old School Love with Ed fukking Sheeran in 2013. All of them hits, with mass appeal and no "puzzle rap" in them.
He released Mission a song about Cancer in 2014.

He released several other tracks that where "straight forward" between FL2 and Tetsou.
And they where also diverse ranging topics, types of beats and flows. All these are pretty close to the Tetsou release.

But this clearly shows he is maintaining a balance. Which you said hes not doing, which shows that you made your judgment of Tetsou alone.

You said: "but I do fear for the path he's on because it's limited and getting gassed by a small hardcore fan base I don't think overall will help him"

I think I have addressed this already.

You said: "I think he's lacking great albums, replay value, songwriting".

You where sneaky and pointed out that many people will not call F&L and The Cool classics, that's okay with me. But you said hes lacking great albums. I think its fair to say they are UNIVERSALLY considered GREAT albums.

Having two great albums is not lacking in great albums in my opinion. You can try saying other people don't feel they are great. And they are entitled to that opinion. But when they are universally hailed by critics, fans and also loved by many listeners out side of rap I think its fair to say that not calling them great is kind of weak with out backing it up.

If you are standing your ground and not admitting that your statement is exaggerated and still think they are only "okay" or weak albums I urge you to post a in depth analys of why you think so.
I wont buy cheap short arguments about "puzzle rap" and "stylistic choices of delivery". Show me that you actually listened to the albums and give examples from songs where you think he is not fulfilling his potential and that drags down the album from being great.

You can still fall back on your "opinon" argument in your defense of replay value. But once more we have to analys things deeper and not rely on "feelings". If he truly lack in replay value and has alienated himself from the regular listener but making music only for his "hard core puzzle rap fans", how come he has 2.412,813 unique listeners every MONTH on Spotify alone? And having songs from every single album on his top 10 most played song list.

You cant claim Lupe lack songwriting skills and not expect to be challenged on it. Its like being on a movie message board and just post: "Tarantino sucks at writing dialog".

Its your opinion, sure. But then you have to back it up. You have always talked about your hip hop knowledge on here so why not show it. Tell us what Lupe is lacking?
And dont bring up any pseudo intellectual or puzzle rap arguments since that got more to do with style then actual songwriting skills.

Since you have listened to all of Lupes music you should have no problems with talking about his rhyme schemes, metaphors, punchlines, and story telling abilities.

But since you're going to break down why F&L and The Cool are not great ill make it easy for you.
Ill give examples of Lupe songs and you can just point out whats lacking in those lyrics.
Lets take songs from F&L that are quite straight forward so you don't have to analys any "puzzles".

He say She say, Hurt me soul and why not American Terrorist since its close to K-Rino territory subject matter.

Three different styles of songwriting. Story telling, Somewhat introspective and finally social commentary.





"And it just seems you got emotional for no reason lol"

Haha! Classic Coli Logic. @SirBiatch must be proud of you using his trademark response.

When ever people are confronted with arguments backed up with in depth analysis that they are not used to, they always fall back on the emotional card.

We squashed our differences before, so I have no interest in start throwing dirt again. So stop it with the attitude.

We have mush in common and we both love talking hip hop. I challenged you on your opinion. That's it.

If I smell bullshyt I will call it out. Some of your opinion seemed to lack logic or wasn't explained. There for I bullet pointed the arguments from your post I wanted you to clarify. I had no problem with the rest of your post.

I hope you take this discussion seriously and dont fold now. Its rare with in depth analys on rappers on this board these days so why not take it.
Im not on here for the rumors, beef or trolling. I want to talk hip hop, so when I disagree with someone on a topic I have interest in, I challenge them to see how they are thinking.

This is not about proving anyone wrong or winning an argument, all I want to know is how you where thinking when you made those statements.

Im going on a five day vacation tomorrow so I hope when I get back there's a serious response and no more talking.

Peace.

You were mad for some reason lol, you started talking about "stupid" "ignorant" and bullshyt like that for no reason. I can't be ignorant of his work as I've heard all his projects..

I've elaborated on the topic numerous times, I don't feel the need to again further, just read the previous posts.

Again it's your opinion, and in the case of "don't listen to his music closely" a factually incorrect one as I have listened extremely closely; have quoted songs, bars and all sorts in the past. I listened very closely and even had a breakdown of T&Y.

Lol, again you're going on a random wild rant about things I never said, I didn't say he's never balanced it out, was talking about the recent effort and songs. I actually liked the Battle Scars song. I like his music when it's a concept and it's more stuck to than the pseudo lyrical ish, mad bars I could quote that describe that to me but I don't really see the point as have already done it and not trying to shyt on him, infact I just came in to post my answer to the thread lol, had I not been quoted would have just had that singular post and kept it moving.

I notice you seem to state your opinions as facts throughout this too, which is not the case; it's an opinion.

I'm not asking you to "buy" anything lol, we just both posted our opinions which were different on a message board, it's not that serious, you seem for some reason to be upset though.

My original post in the thread stated some of what I believe Lupe lacks, many people agree, you don't agree that's fine. I'm not invested that much in Lupe to talk about him all day, however I will give his new projects some listens when they are out and will post my honest opinions about them in the album thread when it's done.

 

[jamaicaiwonder1993]

You were mad for some reason lol, you started talking about "stupid" "ignorant" and bullshyt like that for no reason. I can't be ignorant of his work as I've heard all his projects..

I've elaborated on the topic numerous times, I don't feel the need to again further, just read the previous posts.

Again it's your opinion, and in the case of "don't listen to his music closely" a factually incorrect one as I have listened extremely closely; have quoted songs, bars and all sorts in the past. I listened very closely and even had a breakdown of T&Y.

Lol, again you're going on a random wild rant about things I never said, I didn't say he's never balanced it out, was talking about the recent effort and songs. I actually liked the Battle Scars song. I like his music when it's a concept and it's more stuck to than the pseudo lyrical ish, mad bars I could quote that describe that to me but I don't really see the point as have already done it and not trying to shyt on him, infact I just came in to post my answer to the thread lol, had I not been quoted would have just had that singular post and kept it moving.

I notice you seem to state your opinions as facts throughout this too, which is not the case; it's an opinion.

I'm not asking you to "buy" anything lol, we just both posted our opinions which were different on a message board, it's not that serious, you seem for some reason to be upset though.

My original post in the thread stated some of what I believe Lupe lacks, many piece agree, you don't agree that's fine. I'm not invested that much in Lupe to talk about him all day, however I will give his new projects some listens when they are out and will post my honest opinions about them in the album thread when it's done.

Not to veer off topic, but what atttibutes would you say k rino has over lupe