"nice guys aren't really nice" is a Cop out women use

[FTBS]

It goes both ways. There are a lot of women these "nice guys" could get with, but the nice guys aren't attracted to them so they don't mess with them. The underlying theme neither party wants to admit to is "the people i find attractive arent responding to me the way I want". All this other stuff is just roundabout ways of saying that w/o accepting any responsibility for it.

And friendzone isn't just a relationship without sex and exclusivity. It's a relationship without mutual respect or clear, expressed parameters and intentions from both parties. It's destructive and counterproductive for everyone involved. The dude has blue balls and the chick is turning away anyone who wants to do anything remotely serious with her. Its all bad.

This is true. Big difference is that dudes don't lead chicks on like that. If a dude isn't attracted he just doesn't mess with the chick. If chicks just straight up dismissed nice guys instead of turning them into dikkless boyfriends things would be different. I am not gonna deny the guys responsibility here but each individual is responsible for their own actions and the responsibility is not one-sided. However since we are talking about one side (female cop outs) that is what is being focused on. If the thread was about guys being weak punks that don't make their intentions known, I'd be focusing on that.

That's exactly what the freindzone is. Do you know how many relationships lack respect and parameters and clear intentions. Most relationships are destructive and counterproductive which is why there is so much acrimony between the genders.

 

[Raava]

its ok now, you can cry on my shoulder. Imma nice guy, not like those other thugs

-DMP-

stop being mean you and your buddy!

 

[PartyHeart]

I guess you missed the part where I basically said the bolded. It's not moot because if you are gonna make comparisons across the sexes you must account for the differences.

Sex is a part of the relationship a man wants. Most men have no problem getting the other aspects of relationships (dating, spending time, talking on phone, providing support). I explained this in my previous post pretty clearly.

You keep acting like relationships are rocket science . People jump into relationships without thoroughly vetting people all the time. That said, the requirements for maintaining a relationship are not an adequate explanation for guys who want relationships not being able to get them. Purely based on the law of averages, a man who wants a relationship who actually pursues women should have a certain level of success. Now this is based on the idea that women want to be in relationships. If you are gonna say women aren't interested in relationships then that's one thing (that is patently false). However, plenty of women are in relationships with shytty guys or pursuing relationships with shytty guys so what are the chances that a guy that actually wants to be in a relationship can't catch a break if everybody is being honest?

Sex is part of the relationship a woman wants as well. We aren't that different

Relationships aren't rocket science you're right, but its a lot harder to find a match for a relationship partner than it is to find a match for a sexual partner. Period. And for that reason you cannot say that a person should be guaranteed to see some level of success just because a large portion of the opposite sex is primed to always say thats what they want. They are toooo many factors that could be a reason why that person isn't having success. The law of averages can't apply because we can't say for certain what his attributes are or the type of women he is pursuing. What if they are wildly out of his league? There's just too many things going on when it comes to what people look for in terms of relationships.

 

[PartyHeart]

This is true. Big difference is that dudes don't lead chicks on like that.

Wait a minute...what?

Anyway I have to go, I will come back to this thread later.

 

[FTBS]

Sex is part of the relationship a woman wants as well. We aren't that different

Relationships aren't rocket science you're right, but its a lot harder to find a match for a relationship partner than it is to find a match for a sexual partner. Period. And for that reason you cannot say that a person should be guaranteed to see some level of success just because a large portion of the opposite sex is primed to always say thats what they want. They are toooo many factors that could be a reason why that person isn't having success. The law of averages can't apply because we can't say for certain what his attributes are or the type of women he is pursuing. What if they are wildly out of his league? There's just too many things going on when it comes to what people look for in terms of relationships.

So women place the same value as sex that men do? I never said women placed no value on sex, just not as much as men. If I am wrong then we shouldn't have all this acrimony because everybody wants the same thing the same way with the same intensity.

My man listed his attributes. You shoot enough shots from half-court you are gonna make one regardless of how good you are. If you practice and move closer (the qualities he listed) and have a larger rim (women wanting relationships) the odds should be even better. Are you suggesting women don't want relationships? Because once again if that were true...see above.

 

[philmonroe]

This is true. Big difference is that dudes don't lead chicks on like that. If a dude isn't attracted he just doesn't mess with the chick. If chicks just straight up dismissed nice guys instead of turning them into dikkless boyfriends things would be different. I am not gonna deny the guys responsibility here but each individual is responsible for their own actions and the responsibility is not one-sided. However since we are talking about one side (female cop outs) that is what is being focused on. If the thread was about guys being weak punks that don't make their intentions known, I'd be focusing on that.

That's exactly what the freindzone is. Do you know how many relationships lack respect and parameters and clear intentions. Most relationships are destructive and counterproductive which is why there is so much acrimony between the genders.

I don't know about bold at all fam. A lot of dudes will lie just to sleep with a chick when they know damn well they don't want to be with her long term. I know you've saw and or heard of that happening. If we talking about some other kind of leading on my bad.

 

[aboss4real24]

lotta nikkas in here dont know what there talking about

and acting like experts

 

[Neil Tyson]

I don't know about bold at all fam. A lot of dudes will lie just to sleep with a chick when they know damn well they don't want to be with her long term. I know you've saw and or heard of that happening. If we talking about some other kind of leading on my bad.

I just see it as adults sleeping with each other. If she's too stupid to realize it's not gonna happen then it's not gonna happen. fukk this leading on bullshyt it's your damn fault.

 

[philmonroe]

I just see it as adults sleeping with each other. If she's too stupid to realize it's not gonna happen then it's not gonna happen. fukk this leading on bullshyt it's your damn fault.

Sounds good in theory but there is a such thing as leading people on at least in the beginning. After awhile you should see things but by then people of both genders are usually too emotionally invested to move on. Most of us aren't cold hearted robots so I don't even like to act like we are. I also believe if you were so confident you wouldn't have to lie, lead on, etc but most aren't so that's why they do what they do.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

That's pretty much the gist of what I said. People who feel they are not entitled to anything, are true nice people. That means they do not feel entitled to the identifier "nice guy".

But if they complain about not getting the response they want despite being "nice" then they are not true nice. It sounded like you were saying there are "true nice" guys who either feel or complain about women not giving them a chance. Or like you said women don't give "true nice" guys a chance. Which is just a convoluted way of justifying that same entitlement.

 

[BrehWyatt]

Bold is true for anything not just what you said and I agree. Second bold I throwing the challenge flag unless its on vacation or late at the bar. Not many dudes straight up asking hey baby you fukking off the rip lol. If they are and winning more power to them but I just don't see that type of behavior working and or being attempted much outside of the two places where that may work. Maybe if you've gotten comfortable a little bit you'll be more straight up but I still doubt it then at least until you've hit a time or two. Third bold is a no shyt and I don't think many will complain. I will say I haven't saw many chicks say why he not doing that no more they just keep it moving and the next contestant usually there where they picked off. Not saying it don't happen just saying it hasn't been common in my experience.

In response to the second thing, what I mean is you'll get further just being straight up from the jump, whether you're trying to fukk, date, cuff, whatever. Not necessarily just for fukking (although some chicks and dudes are out here thotting around for the hell of it and enjoy casual sex like that), but just lay out whatever it is you're trying to get done. Whether she's down or not, if you get a definitive answer, you know where you stand one way or the other and you know how to proceed.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

This is true. Big difference is that dudes don't lead chicks on like that. If a dude isn't attracted he just doesn't mess with the chick. If chicks just straight up dismissed nice guys instead of turning them into dikkless boyfriends things would be different. I am not gonna deny the guys responsibility here but each individual is responsible for their own actions and the responsibility is not one-sided. However since we are talking about one side (female cop outs) that is what is being focused on. If the thread was about guys being weak punks that don't make their intentions known, I'd be focusing on that.

That's exactly what the freindzone is. Do you know how many relationships lack respect and parameters and clear intentions. Most relationships are destructive and counterproductive which is why there is so much acrimony between the genders.

If a guy (or girl) willfully stays in a relationship with ambiguous parameters that put them on the losing end, who do they have to blame but themselves?

Men put themselves in the friend zone just liek women put themselves in the jumpoff zone. In either case they are free to leave. Its kind of like going to work, never getting paid, and then complaining about how unfair the company is. Why should they pay you if you keep giving them free labor? Its a win win for them.

 

[Neil Tyson]

But if they complain about not getting the response they want despite being "nice" then they are not true nice. It sounded like you were saying there are "true nice" guys who either feel or complain about women not giving them a chance. Or like you said women don't give "true nice" guys a chance. Which is just a convoluted way of justifying that same entitlement.

If they complain they are not true nice, that is true. That is entitlement.

I never said anything about complaining but my initial post was definitely a superficial take on the concept which you've helped me expand on.

There are definitely women who go after dumbasses than those who are nice with potential, and at this stage of my maturity I just see it as a bullet dodged and I move on without harboring any resentment. That's not entitlement, that's just moving on. A fake nice guy like Elliot Rodgers would probably complain about it and tell them he deserves her because he's been nice to her. A man who knows he's not entitled anything would shrug his shoulders and walk away knowing that she probably wasn't for him anyway.

 

[FTBS]

I don't know about bold at all fam. A lot of dudes will lie just to sleep with a chick when they know damn well they don't want to be with her long term. I know you've saw and or heard of that happening. If we talking about some other kind of leading on my bad.

Are these same guys turning around and complaining about being put in the friendzone? I am generalizing to the majority of guys. A small minority of guys get the p*ssy and do the leading on. Then again another poster (@PartyHeart) tells me that men don't need to lie because women are all good with casual sex because it's easier and are more cautious about who they will mess with long term because it's harder.

 

[FTBS]

If a guy (or girl) willfully stays in a relationship with ambiguous parameters that put them on the losing end, who do they have to blame but themselves?

Men put themselves in the friend zone just liek women put themselves in the jumpoff zone. In either case they are free to leave. Its kind of like going to work, never getting paid, and then complaining about how unfair the company is. Why should they pay you if you keep giving them free labor? Its a win win for them.

This is all true. However, that doesn't change the fact that the bullshyt reasoning that the company uses to defend their practices is indeed bullshyt. If that company turned around and said "these conscientious and diligent workers aren't really conscientious and diligent they are just acting like that in hopes of getting paid" does that make the dynamic of what is going on any different? Sure the workers are screwing themselves but that doesn't preclude the company from their responsibility as well.