Reza Aslan rebuts Bill Maher about Islam

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Western culture is destroying the west. The west would have economically collapsed long ago if they werent flying in million of foreigners. Western culture has created such a low birth rate it is guaranteeing it will have no long term surivival. How can a culture that is wiping itself off the map be superior to anything???? And bill maher is a jew parading as an atheist that wants to destroy islam cuz it threatens isreal and its agenda. Imagine somoene going on tv saying liberals are "soft of jews". Hypocrite

WTF does immigration have to do with islam being a pile of shyt?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Yea, to piggy back on the end, it seems Aslan's argument is self-defeating in some ways:

He points towards secular countries with majority Muslim population to contrast against SA or Iran but neglects to mention:

A) Secularism by definition for the most part is political and legal structure that is NOT theological in nature (i.e., people wish to separate the religion's laws, structure and way of life from day-to-day law and justice).

B) There are significant sub-populations in some of those countries that have very Extreme views. It's like I mentioned above with @Ritzy Sharon, depending on how many people feel that way and have power, being a secular country doesn't make it fool proof from religious influence in legislation and justice (The United States and the Conservative Right being a great example of this). When a shooter killer a doctor who performs abortion or Mormon Church role in prop 8, I don't any sane person would argue that religion plays no role in that.

But Maher is a c*nt. I'm in the same boat. At times he'll drop shyt I agree with, but he's a c*nt on a lot of issues.

1. I rarely disagree with Bill Maher. Take it or leave it.

2. Everything you said about Aslan is right and I don't know how any non-religious person could agree with him. He is the most disingenuous "muslim" thinker in this country. Can't stand that dude.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

To be honest man, it was either that or no religious discussion at all. It was a group thing. Most boards don't even allow religious discussion. It was either it goes in FS, or it goes nowhere. I chose FS.

As for Napoleon, at this rate either you, Kritic or Poitier are going to win HL WOAT. If VVD would've asked, I would've booted you from the thread because thread derailment is explicitly against the HL rules. @alybaba good point about the dynasty politics, I hadn't considered that.

Derailment? WTF?!?

Man you need to fall back with that.

This thread was about religion DE FACTO...so what are you complaining about????

1. Reza Aslan is a charlatan...at best a fraud

2. Bill Maher had legitimate criticisms of muslim communities in the modern world

Whats the problem here?

Ya'll dudes get scared to debate when some people don't capitulate to calls to "back down"

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

He's half Jewish and he was raised Catholic, I think. I'm not saying his Jewish heritage doesn't inform his Zionism. I'm saying his statements toward people in Arab countries are consistent with his general elitism/cultural imperialism. Obviously Muslims/Arabs are going to get the brunt of an American elitist like him because we're intertwined and in conflict with them in so many ways, as opposed to people from South America, Africa, Asia, etc.

Maher was a big influence on my political leanings, back when I was in my late teens/early 20's in 90/00-whatever before there were all these well-known political sites and blogs, and Politically Incorrect was a public forum for leftist views, so I've followed him for a while. I always noticed he was kind of Wilsonian cultural imperialist. Before the Iraq War run-up during the Bush years, he used to advocate taking out Saddam, and basically going anywhere in the world where there was an oppressive regime and overthrowing them and bringing "democracy."

A lot of his criticism of Islam (or Christianity for that matter in regard to red state evangelicals) overlap somewhat with racism and devaluing of people of "inferior culture." It's easy to blame Islam for x,y, and z going on middle eastern nations, and often Islam can justify a lot of brutal and regressive stuff both in institution and text. But it's not really a holistic argument, and can lead to some stretches in causation, and Maher fails when he makes comments like the FGM stuff. Dawkins and them new atheist dudes are on that tip too. I remember Richard Dawkins was twitter beefing with some dude and made some snide comment about the number of scholars or academic award winners in Europe vs. the middle east. That becomes more than a critique of the religion, and enters the realm of racism/xenophobia/cultural elitism, and any look at history shows humanity if devalued with real world consequences when people have that outlook.

And I think Aslan is glossing over the fact that Islam that serve as a reinforcer, structural framework, and a justification for a lot of fukked up things. We can't just ignore stuff like polls that show many in Muslim nations think apostasy should be punished by death, and say "It's not religion it's culture," as if the two are separable, and religion hasn't form the foundation of the law, and thus the culture in many respects for hundreds of years. But he was sort of in defense mode from Maher's salvo, so I can see why he would focus more on the flaws in Maher's statement.

Fam...if we're talking about Islam...keep it there.

Cause I'm anti-Islam ALL DAY.

And thats NOT racist.

You're playing a dangerous game here and pretending like we don't see you trying to insert YOUR politics in here.

The topic is ISLAM...not political doctrine and cultural superiority (even though I think the Arab world is regressive as hell)

 

[Entropy Fan]

WTF does immigration have to do with islam being a pile of shyt?

your running. you said western culture is vastly superior. This culture of fakkits and selfish single moms wont exist in 100 years. western culture will collapse demographically. Where is the superiority in a way of life that cant even survive long term?
And a homo like you raging against religion isnt the least bit interesting or worth engaging with.
Spread the overwhelming majority of HIV even tho your a tiny minority brehs

 

[True Blue Moon]

Lemon and the female co-host were so fukking condescending throughout the entire segment. It was like dude would break out facts and research, but they just couldn't step outside of "B-b-but, they're MUSLIMS!"

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

your running. you said western culture is vastly superior.

It is.

This culture of fakkits and selfish single moms wont exist in 100 years. western culture will collapse demographically. Where is the superiority in a way of life that cant even survive long term?

whats this got to do with Islam?

And a homo like you raging against religion isnt the least bit interesting or worth engaging with.

1. i'm not gay
2. You're religious. You wouldn't know any better

Spread the overwhelming majority of HIV even tho your a tiny minority brehs

See what I'm talking about?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Lemon and the female co-host were so fukking condescending throughout the entire segment. It was like dude would break out facts and research, but they just couldn't step outside of "B-b-but, they're MUSLIMS!"

Because the topic WAS ISLAM

Aslan tries to make it all about "well politics and all this other stuff"

Nah fam. when I bring up the price of sugar, you don't get to talk about the new wallpaper you bought.

 

[Entropy Fan]

It is.

whats this got to do with Islam?
1. i'm not gay
2. You're religious. You wouldn't know any better

See what I'm talking about?

You CANT answer a basic question. Keep running. How is a culture superior that has no long term viability? Western culture and its way of life guarantees no chance at long term surivival. When did i say i was religious. I apologize for not caping for your pro isreal agenda. And your gay as shyt, or do you just like paassionaetly defending AIDS spreaders??

 

[True Blue Moon]

Because the topic WAS ISLAM

Aslan tries to make it all about "well politics and all this other stuff"

Nah fam. when I bring up the price of sugar, you don't get to talk about the new wallpaper you bought.

The topic was about whether primarily Islamic countries are more violent and barbaric due to the faith that they practice. If that's the topic, you can't separate the discussion from Aslan rattling off non-violent Islamic countries where women have even ruled.

It's dishonest to have dude clearly concede countries like Saudi Arabia, but then bring up Turkey and Indonesia, only for them to say "What about Saudi Arabia " again any time he refutes a point.

I'm not necessarily knocking their point, but they did absolutely nothing to intelligently make one.

 

[Entropy Fan]

The topic was about whether primarily Islamic countries are more violent and barbaric due to the faith that they practice. If that's the topic, you can't separate the discussion from Aslan rattling off non-violent Islamic countries where women have even ruled.

It's dishonest to have dude clearly concede countries like Saudi Arabia, but then bring up Turkey and Indonesia, only for them to say "What about Saudi Arabia " again any time he refutes a point.

I'm not necessarily knocking their point, but they did absolutely nothing to intelligently make one.

Why is it only non white culutures people get to be so brutally politically correct about? Someone create a segment on how likely you are to be a lazy drunk if your of irish heritage, or how bloodthirsty, dishonest and manipulative people are that come from a jewish background. See how long that last. Bigotted hyprocrites.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You CANT answer a basic question. Keep running. How is a culture superior that has no long term viability? Western culture and its way of life guarantees no chance at long term surivival. When did i say i was religious. I apologize for not caping for your pro isreal agenda. And your gay as shyt, or do you just like paassionaetly defending AIDS spreaders??

1. i'm not gay
2. Western culture has helped push a lot of the new normal in the world

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

The topic was about whether primarily Islamic countries are more violent and barbaric due to the faith that they practice. If that's the topic, you can't separate the discussion from Aslan rattling off non-violent Islamic countries where women have even ruled.

It's dishonest to have dude clearly concede countries like Saudi Arabia, but then bring up Turkey and Indonesia, only for them to say "What about Saudi Arabia " again any time he refutes a point.

I'm not necessarily knocking their point, but they did absolutely nothing to intelligently make one.

I just have a visceral dislike and disregard for Aslan

 

[True Blue Moon]

Why is it only non white culutures people get to be so brutally politically correct about? Someone create a segment on how likely you are to be a lazy drunk if your of irish heritage, or how bloodthirsty, dishonest and manipulative people are that come from a jewish background. See how long that last. Bigotted hyprocrites.

Exactly. We already know what time it is, smh.

 

[Type Username Here]

Why is it only non white culutures people get to be so brutally politically correct about? Someone create a segment on how likely you are to be a lazy drunk if your of irish heritage, or how bloodthirsty, dishonest and manipulative people are that come from a jewish background. See how long that last. Bigotted hyprocrites.

Man, you really missed out on about 5 decades of anti-Soviet and anti-Communist propaganda.