So Double Talk Dave gave Okada vs Omega 6 stars.

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I thought the finish was a bit ridiculous, but it was still a solid match. I'd give it 4.5/5 stars

5 stars for me

I avoided the main thread until now. I had to watch this show in 3 parts it was over 5 hours long

But I am finished now, I DO think it's worthy of a lot of the praise it's receiving, it had some really innovative spots that actually worked into the body parts they were targeting.

that said, the finishing stretch did start to get a little much but that's all these matches these days whether it's at NJPW or at WrestleMania.

Both dudes put on a hell of a show tho no doubt.

 

[Art Barr]

This is just Meltzer fan boydom of Okada.

The match had the incorrect finish and njpw missed its opportunity.
to crown it's new mainstream domestic and pureo gateway champion moving forward.
Now we are stuck in basically what if orton was not neutered workrate territory in the wwf and was an infinitely better psyche worker all over again in njpw.

It is not better than Nigel Danielson at all.
Nor is it seeing any of the aj Danielson series either.
It has better symmetry than benoit/eddy = tiger mask and it also goes to out do the finish of that.
which is also why I think he rated it five stars as it incorporated and surpassed the finish of benoit/eddy in njpw in the hw division. When that was a super j cup match.
While also elongating the match past the holy shyt best finish in wrasslin history all time.

Which in pureo had to be done to move pureo further.
All because the tiger mask benoit finish pigeonholed all of pureo after that.
So, imo,....
To me from all the top review guys love of benoit to now.
I feel Meltzer went and gave this six stars to connotate.
That it has a better sequence than benoit/tiger mask leading to a false finish.
Plus, to further pureo which was hampered by the finish of Tiger mask vs wild Pegasus as well.
Including the tragic ending and tale of benoit to eddy.
Plus, how the wrasslin community took a blow and moved forward after benoit was dead.


Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

I just wanna know how im supposed to be fully invested in a 50 minute wrestling match where I dont even know what the feud is, I dont even know the language of the commentary.

When we were kids and wrestling was actually popular, none of us were judging matches based on how great they were, we were into it cuz of the angles and we wanted to see who would win. Thats why a supposed "bad" match like Shawn vs Austin at mania 14 had a huge impact. HBK kids were in shambles, Austin fans were

Tell me what matches nowadays give you that feel really. Now were just giving both guys respect for putting on a great match (where nobody cares at all who won), and aint nobody watching.

Enjoy your six star match that you can only discuss in your small gated community brehs

You don't know what you are talembout at all.



Art Barr

 

[Rayzah]

of the highest order. The last four or five premier NJPW main events in a mix of Okada, Tanahashi, Omega, Styles, and Nakamura all had two or three finishers that were kicked out of in their match. And that's not even counting the ridiculous number of pseudo-finishers you see in every big New Japan match, hell in this one alone Omega took like three tombstone piledrivers and a DDT on cement in addition to the finishers . The only one I can think of that fits that bill in recent WWE memory is Styles/Cena from SummerSlam and Reigns/Lesnar from Mania. Sure a lot of PPV events have one false finish, but New Japan is the king of overdoing that shyt, no stanning.

Do you even like wrestling? Seriously if so what is it that you like in a match. Do you take yourself that seriously that you can't appreciate the storytelling of that match just cause he kicked out of some finishers? How about the fact that omega's finisher was so protected that he didn't hit it not one time?

 

[Art Barr]

I havent watched NJ in a few years, Ill check this out though. The hyped Okada matches in 13/14 were good, probably better if I understood the language and context better.

If the rainmaker was Reigns or Ziggler or somebodys WWE finish itd get called out for not being that good, which is why Im surprised that TSC doesnt call it out. Its a fancy clothesline without the momentum.

Okada's rainmaker is nowhere near nigel's jelly Bean lariat finish at all.
Yet, I feel people transpose the like of nigel onto Okada and his finish.
given the fact we never got to see nigel, in full considering his demise via health concerns.
Plus, I feel Meltzer likes Okada because he is what if randy orton was in pureo and allowed to work and helps transition from the mythos Meltzer wrote when benoit was alive as well.
As orton going over the championship mythos of benoit is a perfect psychology based tangent to move away from Benoit from.
Plus, as far as review greats picks up from Keith meets Meltzer and moves forward as well.
Meltzer likes are easily followed like simple high quality wrasslin psychology.
As he never, moves far from what he established in reviewing.
Just like how he rates match psychology.

So, imo he closed out the work on his past work and moved forward with this praise of this match given direction.
in general of all wrasslin commentary via psychology.

As far as how Meltzer rates matches and giving props to closing out portions of the work.
This fits into how he rates five star matches.
So, if you view this and know your shyt you can see how Meltzer arose to give this six stars.
As it has the fluidity, the one up manship, the psychology and the advanced evolution of five star matches and finishes to false finishes legacy wise.
That I can easily see why, meltzer labeled this a six star match.

Only reason why I don't rate it a five or six star, is because the finish makes no sense and pigeon holes njpw back into the the same old same o l d.
like a pureo version of the ace is cena and okada is orton.

When njpw should be moving into making omega and Naito more dominant.
While, also normalizing or making the aces of njpw into a four man field that includes Naito and omega with Tanahashi and okada.

Art Barr

 

[Dog Based Gremlin]

I have to agree. This is up there with Undertaker vs HBK as a perfect match

I really like how this was the main event of New Japan's biggest event of the year and they performed an instant classic.

There will never be a legit 6 star match though.

I think the only way a 6 star match can ever really happen is if the match quality was similar to this match (or Undertaker vs HBK) and it was so classic that mainstream outlets speak about it and it ushers in a new era and ratings like Forrest Griffin vs Stephen Bonnar UFC's first Ultimate Fighter

 

[Art Barr]

of the highest order. The last four or five premier NJPW main events in a mix of Okada, Tanahashi, Omega, Styles, and Nakamura all had two or three finishers that were kicked out of in their match. And that's not even counting the ridiculous number of pseudo-finishers you see in every big New Japan match, hell in this one alone Omega took like three tombstone piledrivers and a DDT on cement in addition to the finishers . The only one I can think of that fits that bill in recent WWE memory is Styles/Cena from SummerSlam and Reigns/Lesnar from Mania. Sure a lot of PPV events have one false finish, but New Japan is the king of overdoing that shyt, no stanning.

You do realize wwe is b*stardized and commercialized lower quality ripoff of workrate featured in pureso.
So, any false finish you see in wwe is a ripoff of a njpw finish.
Also the innovation in workrate and moves in pureso is that much more advanced than the wwe.
That any move stolen from that arena and used domstically.
Never will feature the psychology or setup used to orientated or authenication it's effectiveness/ineffectiveness coupled with the idea of fighting spirit as well.
At this point in time pureso and njpw are so far advanced in that category.
That the urgent finish has taken precedence to close the finish domestically.
now that wwe is basically low grade rehashed reruns of roh workrate and the sense of urgency finish.
Yet domestically workrate on a Mainstream level was not as pronounced.
you speak as though you are unaware of this gap existing.


Art Barr

 

[Rout3r2035]

Do you even like wrestling? Seriously if so what is it that you like in a match. Do you take yourself that seriously that you can't appreciate the storytelling of that match just cause he kicked out of some finishers? How about the fact that omega's finisher was so protected that he didn't hit it not one time?

Chill the fukk out, when did I say that I didn't like the match? Hell in this thread alone I said I'd give it 4+ stars. All I did was dispute that guy's claim that New Japan so sacredly "preserves" finishers because in main events that's just flat out untrue. A lot of wrestling promotions have this problem, including ROH. Say what you want about WWE, but generally speaking they don't have this problem to the extreme of the others. And considering Omega was the heel (or at best, a tweener), what does that kind of strength suggest for Okada's booking going forward?

 

[jackswstd]

I rate it 5 stars off one viewing. I was invested in the match and both guys did their part in putting on a classic IMO.

 

[Art Barr]

Chill the fukk out, when did I say that I didn't like the match? Hell in this thread alone I said I'd give it 4+ stars. All I did was dispute that guy's claim that New Japan so sacredly "preserves" finishers because in main events that's just flat out untrue. A lot of wrestling promotions have this problem, including ROH. Say what you want about WWE, but generally speaking they don't have this problem to the extreme of the others. And considering Omega was the heel (or at best, a tweener), what does that kind of strength suggest for Okada's booking going forward?

In general you do realize wwe me are typically really low barely one to no star matches.
While in general the typical njpw match is generally a two and a half to three star match.

So, just you trying to talk about wwf and njpw finishes incomparison is flawed to begin with.
You speak as if wwe is the higher quality and njpw is the lower quality.
when wwe is the low quality bullshyt.

Art Barr

 

[Riley Escobar]

You cats really be going back watching WM 25 matches? LOL!

This dude furious people are still talking about an HBK match years on

 

[Art Barr]

I have to agree. This is up there with Undertaker vs HBK as a perfect match

I really like how this was the main event of New Japan's biggest event of the year and they performed an instant classic.

There will never be a legit 6 star match though.

I think the only way a 6 star match can ever really happen is if the match quality was similar to this match (or Undertaker vs HBK) and it was so classic that mainstream outlets speak about it and it ushers in a new era and ratings like Forrest Griffin vs Stephen Bonnar UFC's first Ultimate Fighter

Actually I feel there is a six star match but I have not seen it in so long in its entirety since it aired.
that I don't know which one it is in the series of matches anymore.

The only six star match I would say was the nwa me of me vs rnr express.
that went over their tv time limit on the old nwa tv show.
With the nwa theme song that the bullet club samples for their theme song.
I also feel the young bucks versus someone who had a villain/face rivalry could be a Six star match too.
As it could play off psychology of the villain face tag team and the psychology being elongated from a bucks match as well.

I could see this being a Six star match in Meltzer's review style.
given he is a Okada mark on a level I don't understand.
As real talk,..I find Okada to be the one guy in njpw.
who is not as good as the ace or the others.
Yet, put above because of visual aesthetics and look.
Workrate wise I don't see it all the time like others do.
Plus, i feel his finishers are overused and phoney with no innovation, from a domestic.
as I also feel Tanahashi elevated Okada and Okada is not as good as Tanahashi or styles or omega.
Let alone, the past njpw new guard of guys.
He is the most marketable visually and gimmick wise to a domestic audience given people's fascination with sckrippers, casinos and money.
Yet past that I don't see why or how he is given just as much praise as Tanahashi or others in njpw at all.

Booking him over omega was a disservice to njpw, imo.
If omega won and they captured his momentum in a bottle.
I could see this being six stars as the match also elevated omega and gave him the strap.
Plus, the drama to secure angel's wings was non existent here.
This match is was Similar to kurt's first elevation over scsa.
Which AT THE TIME I Did NOT aGREE WITH.
As wwe, Was trying to create its own green based grassroots workrate stars before their real time.
By putting angle over scsa.
Which imo elevated the rating of that match to five stars.
Although i thought at the time angle getting the strap was to soon.
Yet , if omega went over like angle did.
I could see Meltzer given the workrate and innovation to surpass goat staples like tigermask/pegasus finish.
Then, the homage to the finish from 95 to 96 and also, any and every recent njpw match since aj came and went as well.

So, if omega went over I could see the six stars.
as it would have had a perfect finish and moved njpw into a new era as a domestic gateway.
Yet they failed to change the same ol same ol dynamic of njpw.
They got from aj being their and eliminated the effectiveness of the Golden boi finish for omega in the future being fully potent as well.
As njpw needs to move away from its easy to see title crowning era.
they have been stuck in since going with Tanahashi and Okada always as the flagships.
For njpw not to see and crown omega really hurt them moving forward and makes it difficult to watch as an alternative because of the predictability that Tanahashi or Okada will always have the strap if aj never came over.
As njpw, continues to be similar to the sameness of the wwe's cena and orton era of predictability with the ace and Okada era.



Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

This dude furious people are still talking about an HBK match years on

The match is severely overrated and I rated it four stars.
as it is west Texas redneck meets my buddy hbk is my enemy hbk clique wwe playbook flanked by hogan in dark tights.

Art Barr

 

[Metal Face]

I just re-watched it. Wouldn't call it the GOAT but it was an incredible match for sure. Really wanted Omega to win but whatever they'll probably do the rematch next year.

 

[TheWhackMamba]

Id give it 4.5 it wasn't bret v Austin or flair steamboat maybe I'm just old but finisher spam matches don't get full marks from me.