Steph Curry has completely WARPED the way we rate players

[AlainLocke]

Here they go with this Steph is a great defender again.





You post how he is a great defender amongst the best in the L in some categories and how his D ultimately leads to wins.

But then you say defense doesn't matter.

The ability of perimeter players to "lockdown" someone doesn't matter in the today's defensive teams

If you look at the defensive stats of perimeter players...they rank at the bottom...which is why perimeter players rarely win Defensive Player of the Year because their defense don't really matter...

You have few standouts like Andre Roberson and Robert Covington...who are just godly defensive players

Then you have big men...like Rudy Gobert or Hassan Whiteside who rank near the top...

Like I said...the best guards in the NBA can't play defense for shyt like how people think they play defense...and never could play defense

Big men are the anchors of defenses...big men make defenses work...not perimeter players...

There are a few perimeter players in the history of the NBA that have anchored defenses...like Miami Lebron, Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan

Here's the list defensive real plus minus of all the NBA in the NBA
NBA Real Plus-Minus - National Basketball Association - ESPN

There aren't any top guards in in the top 20...

shyt there are only 5 perimeter players in the top 20...

Tyrus Jones
Andre Roberson
Dejontae Murray
Kyle Anderson
Robert Covington

Even in NBA history, perimeter players rank near the bottom for their overall career.
NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Defensive Box Plus/Minus | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Y'all anti-intellectual old heads need to stop shytting up these basketball discussions.

 

[JYoung24]

Kobe wasn't a great defender....he's an overrated defender.

Wade was a good defender and a great help defender

And Curry's offensive impact outweighs any defensive impact that Kobe and Wade had...

You can replace Wade and Kobe with someone Bruce Bowen or someone and be fine...

Who you gonna replace Curry with? Curry is an entire offensive system.

A great perimeter defender that was a viable offensive player is Scottie Pippen, Kawhi Leonard, Walt Frazier, Michael Jordan, Sidney Moncrief...those guys...



I wish people would stop bringing up Kobe when he was never even on the level of D-Wade....

Gtfoh with that bullshyt

 

[Cynical Thoughts]

The ability of perimeter players to "lockdown" someone doesn't matter in the today's defensive teams

If you look at the defensive stats of perimeter players...they rank at the bottom...which is why perimeter players rarely win Defensive Player of the Year because their defense don't really matter...

You have few standouts like Andre Roberson and Robert Covington...who are just godly defensive players

Then you have big men...like Rudy Gobert or Hassan Whiteside who rank near the top...

Like I said...the best guards in the NBA can't play defense for shyt like how people think they play defense...and never could play defense

Big men are the anchors of defenses...big men make defenses work...not perimeter players...

There are a few perimeter players in the history of the NBA that have anchored defenses...like Miami Lebron, Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan

Here's the list defensive real plus minus of all the NBA in the NBA
NBA Real Plus-Minus - National Basketball Association - ESPN

There aren't any top guards in in the top 20...

shyt there are only 5 perimeter players in the top 20...

Tyrus Jones
Andre Roberson
Dejontae Murray
Kyle Anderson
Robert Covington

Even in NBA history, perimeter players rank near the bottom for their overall career.
NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Defensive Box Plus/Minus | Basketball-Reference.com

Why are you posting Stephs defensive features if defense doesn't matter? Is it cause he was ranked at the top? That is a prime example that you use stats that are convenient to him only.

Crazy how you post all these defensive stats then say it really means nothing. Leads me to believe you know your argument is flimsy.

Did Delly's play on Curry in the finals mean nothing?

Why did Iguadala win the fmvp?

Perimeter defensive anchor ,that's where you wanna go with this? I know you on some other stuff now.

You got me breh nobody plays defense or every really played defense cause of some charts you posted.

For the record I'm not against anylitics but I'm not about to be a slave to it either.

When you know Beverly and Curry are worlds apart on defense seeing them held in the same breathe should at least raise an eyebrow. Nope y'all keep keeping on.

Edit: does your links take into account anything else happening in the game while that player was on the floor? Missed assignment by other players, bad calls, coaching error etc?

 

[steph_harden]

Kobe wasn't a great defender....he's an overrated defender.

Wade was a good defender and a great help defender

And Curry's offensive impact outweighs any defensive impact that Kobe and Wade had...

You can replace Wade and Kobe with someone Bruce Bowen or someone and be fine...

Who you gonna replace Curry with? Curry is an entire offensive system.

A great perimeter defender that was a viable offensive player is Scottie Pippen, Kawhi Leonard, Walt Frazier, Michael Jordan, Sidney Moncrief...those guys...



I wish people would stop bringing up Kobe when he was never even on the level of D-Wade....

Annnnd here in lies the problem. Underatting all time greats just to overrate Curry.

You’ve went way over the edge on this one

 

[Draje]

I thought OP was referring to gravity in the sense of importance. Didn’t know it was some basketball term. I looked it up and it looks like some more bullshyt ESPN made up

Curry was doing this when it was Draymond, Barbosa, Iggy, and Bogut

Give Steph a team with good players, and give Jordan or Kobe a team with equally good players, and Steph's PER is going out the fukking window.

I have repeatedly seen him become reduced to a shell of himself when you get physical with him.

He has that cheat-code shot, but there have been teams that have made it difficult for him to get good looks at the rim. He's not super-athletic and he isn't 6'6".

Efficiency is a great thing, no doubt about it - but Kobe can simply do more things on offensive than Steph can. and he is a far better defender.

That goes double for MJ.

Repeatedly? Point to all these playoff games where Curry was reduced to a shell by physical play? Curry is constantly harrassed, off the ball especially, and deals with all matters of contact but he still tends to perform.

This idea that Curry just disappears is off of one finals game where Delly had to be carted off to the hospital from sheer exhaustion after a game. Curry still finished off the series playing great.

We talking about teams made it difficult for him to get looks at the rim like Kobe hasn't had struggle performances and series against the likes of the Suns, Celtics, and the like.

All Kobe can do offensively that Curry can't is footwork, finishing, and midrange. Curry is such a bigger threat from distance that he forces defenses to change their scheme. He's better at finding ways to get his GOAT-tier weapon (The most valuable shot in basketball, by far) off with GOAT-tier quickness with GOAT-tier range. People talk about he can't score as well without screens as if using picks well isn't an elite basketball skill or that the reason he's so good at taking advantage of mismatches is that not switching a screen is tantamount to giving Curry a layup from 30 feet out.

Curry's off-ball movement and fact that he needs to be face guarded while being the most active offensive star (In the sense that he moves more than any other superstar in the league) is also subtly huge. You see GSW get a bunch of wide open layups and dunks constantly because defenses would freeze if Curry even comes off a screen or looks at the rim.

Having a GOAT talent, GOAT release, and GOAT range for taking 3s along with the high basketball IQ to use everything in your arsenal to abuse and accentuate that skill can be just as dangerous as elite at everything (Kobe). Offensive versatility don't necessarily override sheer dominance in something. Brooke Lopez might have more offensive moves than Shaq, it doesn't matter because Shaq simply can't be stopped.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Steph lacks the athletic ability to be a great defender. It’ll only get worse once he gets older/something happens to his weak ankles. It is what it is

Is/was CP3 a great defender in your opinion?

 

[VegasCAC]

Is/was CP3 a great defender in your opinion?

No.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Homie posted this shyt and quoted me yesterday.

Had the same thought you did.

Essentially the top 3 on the list are great shooters. So it's a fancy way of saying defenders stay close to good shooters.

I told the poster I question your knowledge if he needs a stat to tell him that.

You really are a special type of smart dumb.

The term "gravity" in basketball has been used before that gravity score stat was in the rotation. When folks talk about Curry's gravity, they're talking about the pull he has on defenses as a whole, i.e. when he's dribbling into the halfcourt and three defenders come off their assignment and come in proximity to Curry's shooting or lane space, because of his handle and range on his shot. It's not just saying "defenders stay close to good shooters".

 

[Bilz]

Are you gonna provide evidence that steph is a bad defender or continue peddling the myth without any evidence.

What are his defensive numbers looking like compared to other starting guards in the league

Reputation is all that seems to matter. All of the hard evidence says that Kobe was only a plus defender very early in his career (when he earned that reputation).

For most of his career, his primary contribution to the defensive end was that his presence in the lineup usually meant more minutes for a defensive specialist who was offensively challenged.

 

[AlainLocke]

Annnnd here in lies the problem. Underatting all time greats just to overrate Curry.

You’ve went way over the edge on this one

I am talking about on defense...

Kobe's and Wade's defense isn't that valuable...

No smart and forward thinking coach is looking at Curry vs. Wade and being like..."Well Wade plays better defense, so I'll take Wade..."

 

[Poitier]

DRPM is not meant to be used as a standalone stat nor does it 1:1 capture defensive value.

You are suppose to use an assortment of defensive stats to sort of approximate defensive value and even then you still need the eye test/context.

Anyone with eyes can tell Curry is a porous defender even when engaged.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Anyone with eyes can tell Curry is a porous defender even when engaged.

Be blind, brehs.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Face guard Steph and he goes from a good not elite ISO player to a below average one unlike Harden, Kyrie or even Westbrook/Lebron.

Doesn't have incredible versatility outside of scoring and his off ball scoring is heavily reliant on screening and other playmakers.

Porous defender even when engaged.

Makes tons of careless passes despite the "creativity."

Comparing his gravity to Shaq is laughable when only one of them is a legit offensive anchor and has FMVPs.

You got box score nerds then you got people who actually understand and watch the game so they can contextualize stats.

Steph Curry is a front runner who pads stats after his teammates build leads during the later rounds of the playoffs.

I thought OP was on some bullshyt, but this here is some another shyt. How could you be wrong on nearly every single point you made?

 

[Poitier]

I thought OP was on some bullshyt, but this here is some another shyt. How could you be wrong on nearly every single point you made?

All facts I just broke ya mancrush down to the molecular level