Mantis Toboggan M.D.
I’m here for the scraps
One game doesn't = regularity and as mentioned, teams were just learning how to use zones at that point.
Stephen Curry vs Magic Johnson
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Exactly. Coaches are some of the most stubborn people on the planet. It takes a lot for them to abandon what they have been teaching all their career and adopt a new scheme. Zones now are a lot different than they were 15 years ago.
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
I’m here for the scraps
Leaving Mike bibby in the starting lineup through game 5 of the finals
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
If Curry can translate this over to the postseason - regardless if the Warriors win the title or not - he gets the nod.
@No HomoI'm a huge Curry fan but slow your roll with this bait post.
Incoming 30+ page argument where Gil never concedes
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So I'm guessing y'all think Curry's not even comparable to Magic at his peak either?
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Here's my reasoning:
-Curry is having the greatest scoring season in NBA history when you consider volume (30.5ppg) + efficiency (68.2 TS%). To take 11 3's, a much lower percentage shot than 2's, per game and still eclipse the 50/40/90 mark is something that simply should not happen in the game of basketball & a level of marksmanship this league has never seen before. Magic was a talented scorer who had a great inside game, got to the line at an absurd rate and nailed them at a great clip once he got there but he was never dominant for a prolonged stretch of time (in large part due to his mentality) and certainly never reached the level Curry's at now as a scorer even in his most assertive season 1987.
-Curry is absolutely not the floor general that Magic was, but you'd have a hard time convincing me that he doesn't create as many if not more advantageous opportunities for his own teammates. The threat of the greatest shooter in league history getting an open look forces teams to trap him 26 feet away from the basket which results in a 4on3 opportunity for the other Warriors to convert. Curry generally doesn't get the assist for that but the impact is the same. On top of this he's a strong natural passer who can thread the needle with either hand and find the open guy with ease. He's got that same flashy flair that Magic did. When he isn't handling the ball he'll spend his time darting around the court off screens, setting them himself & making well timed cuts. The guy puts an absurd amount of stress on a defense without controlling the ball, and his gravity often results in other Warriors getting an open jumper or dunk. Not averaging double digit assists but he might as well be with how much better his support plays with him on the floor directly because of the fear he causes as a scorer & off ball movement.
-Shouldn't say anything about teammates when you look at that Lakers roster w/ the likes of Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Coop, M. Thompson, A.C Green. If I made a poll I'd guess Green/Klay would come it at third behind those first two legends.
-Shouldn't say anything about defense, Magic was hidden too against ultra quick guards and was much more of a team defender than great m2m similar to Curry. Did have the size to guard more people but he wasn't particularly impactful while doing so
-Shouldn't have any concerns as to whether Curry's game would translate to other eras. No, a team trying to injure him is not a valid reason to suggest that he'd struggle. Thats just a cop out b/c they have no other answer to stop his dominance, which translates across all eras
-You can bring up trip dubs in Magic's favor, but I dont see how it narrows the gap between them offensively
-In 1987 Magic led an offense that was +7.3 lg avg in offensive rating. Curry right now is leading an offense that is +8.7 lg avg in offensive rating and this is with him sitting 18 or so 4th quarters. He is leading the greatest offensive team this game has ever seen
-Postseason play is the only caveat here for me as we haven't seen Steph's performance yet, but unless he falls off a cliff he should cap off the greatest year this game has ever seen at the position. I have a LOT of appreciation for Magic's game and I still think he wasn't better than what we're seeing from Curry right now who's just flat out the more impactful basketball player. Still a good comparison to discuss though
Not at all man. You don't need multiple seasons to say player X at his best is superior to player y. Just about every player has that one season that stands out among the rest as their very best. We know what that is for Magic, and now we have Curry's.
-Curry is having the greatest scoring season in NBA history when you consider volume (30.5ppg) + efficiency (68.2 TS%). To take 11 3's, a much lower percentage shot than 2's, per game and still eclipse the 50/40/90 mark is something that simply should not happen in the game of basketball & a level of marksmanship this league has never seen before. Magic was a talented scorer who had a great inside game, got to the line at an absurd rate and nailed them at a great clip once he got there but he was never dominant for a prolonged stretch of time (in large part due to his mentality) and certainly never reached the level Curry's at now as a scorer even in his most assertive season 1987.
-Curry is absolutely not the floor general that Magic was, but you'd have a hard time convincing me that he doesn't create as many if not more advantageous opportunities for his own teammates. The threat of the greatest shooter in league history getting an open look forces teams to trap him 26 feet away from the basket which results in a 4on3 opportunity for the other Warriors to convert. Curry generally doesn't get the assist for that but the impact is the same. On top of this he's a strong natural passer who can thread the needle with either hand and find the open guy with ease. He's got that same flashy flair that Magic did. When he isn't handling the ball he'll spend his time darting around the court off screens, setting them himself & making well timed cuts. The guy puts an absurd amount of stress on a defense without controlling the ball, and his gravity often results in other Warriors getting an open jumper or dunk. Not averaging double digit assists but he might as well be with how much better his support plays with him on the floor directly because of the fear he causes as a scorer & off ball movement.
-Shouldn't say anything about teammates when you look at that Lakers roster w/ the likes of Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Coop, M. Thompson, A.C Green. If I made a poll I'd guess Green/Klay would come it at third behind those first two legends.
-Shouldn't say anything about defense, Magic was hidden too against ultra quick guards and was much more of a team defender than great m2m similar to Curry. Did have the size to guard more people but he wasn't particularly impactful while doing so
-Shouldn't have any concerns as to whether Curry's game would translate to other eras. No, a team trying to injure him is not a valid reason to suggest that he'd struggle. Thats just a cop out b/c they have no other answer to stop his dominance, which translates across all eras
-You can bring up trip dubs in Magic's favor, but I dont see how it narrows the gap between them offensively
-In 1987 Magic led an offense that was +7.3 lg avg in offensive rating. Curry right now is leading an offense that is +8.7 lg avg in offensive rating and this is with him sitting 18 or so 4th quarters. He is leading the greatest offensive team this game has ever seen
-Postseason play is the only caveat here for me as we haven't seen Steph's performance yet, but unless he falls off a cliff he should cap off the greatest year this game has ever seen at the position. I have a LOT of appreciation for Magic's game and I still think he wasn't better than what we're seeing from Curry right now who's just flat out the more impactful basketball player. Still a good comparison to discuss though
Premature Coli Debate Vol. 2,346
Not at all man. You don't need multiple seasons to say player X at his best is superior to player y. Just about every player has that one season that stands out among the rest as their very best. We know what that is for Magic, and now we have Curry's.
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I never suggested it wasn't close, but I'm also not giving the nod to Curry. :shrugkobe:
I mean people will underrate Magic's scoring ability simply because he never looked to score that often due to those Laker teams were stacked and he preferred playmaking. If we go by OP's year of 87/88 Magic was averaging 1.46 points per shot attempt. Curry this year is averaging 1.51. Magic was never the shooter Curry was, but he was still a walking mismatch at 6'9" playing the PG position while being able to play any other position offensively.
OG Talk
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The reason I say its premature is because the most important part of his "peak" season (the playoff run) hasn't even occurred yet.. If his team ends up like the '95 Sonics or '07 Mavs and loses in the first round to a 8 seed, this is no longer a conversation.. Or if he goes out like due to injury like D. Rose against the Sixers in 2012 then this is no longer a conversation..
Plus.. Who's to say a 27 year old (I know he just turned 28) has already had his definitive "peak" season anyway? He could just be figuring things out and be 2-3 years away from his true peak...
I just like to wait until the entire book or movie is finished before I give my full review..
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A topic about Curry vs. Magic and Jordan somehow gets shoehorned into this
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I don't think they are comparable because their games and the context of the leagues they were playing in are so different..
I been told you how dumb I think these cross generational debates are and how they only exist to serve ones inherit bias..
There has never been anyone in the league like Magic and has never been anyone in the league like Steph.. The rush to declare which one of them is "better" is futile..
But if you're gonna do it, at least wait until the full story is written..
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
I don't think 'underrating' Magic's scoring ability is really a factor in this comparison. I mean the real issue here is how most will underrate and overlook Curry's ability to generate open looks and points for his team by simply referencing the box score and highlighting his lack of assists - when if you were to go over their respective peaks with a fine-toothed comb, the margin of how many points/looks they generate WITHOUT scoring is a lot closer (even favoring Curry) than the margin in their scoring abilities.
Nah, Im not an extremist. The poll question asks who's the better player. I voted just on that, before I read about best peak season. Curry is undoubtedly having one of the greatest seasons of any player ever.
I also give the old timers the nod 75% of the time because a guy like Magic brought so much to the game that has been built on through the generations of stars, that it makes it a tough direct comparison for me.
Magic was also my favorite player growing up, so there's that childhood connection.
With all that being said, Steph Curry, over these last two seasons can be included in any conversation with any point guard's greatest year past or present. He's been that good. And he's hella exciting to watch play.
Jacksonville Swaguar
BANNED
Another what if debate between two people who will never play each other or even in the same century and thus can never be proven/disproven