Stephen Curry vs Magic Johnson

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

This. Don't forget the Mavericks doing this against Shaq in the 2006 finals. One of my favorite arguments to pick apart was the "Mike wouldn't have let the 2011 Mavericks defense slow him down". That strategy wasn't permitted in his era. There's a reason Shaq was scoring so little in the 2006 finals. Same reason you couldn't play a guy like Dennis Rodman 36 minutes a night in today's league. Teams wouldn't have to stick to him when you're on offense. Memphis has this issue with Tony Allen.

Shaq got old quick by the end of 06.

You think a zone would make any difference to LA shaq

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Shaq got old quick by the end of 06.

You think a zone would make any difference to LA shaq

Somewhat yeah. If there's alread a crowd before he catches then it makes it much harder to operate

 

[Malta]

Jordan didn't hit 3s because he didn't grow up with 3s. Jordan's shooting form is damn near perfect. Thinking MJ wouldn't be a 40% shooter in today's era is surface level thinking

Line was 23'9" when he shot 30%

Just because he had a great form doesn't mean he'd be a great 3 point shooter, Ben McLemore's form is picture perfect and just looking at it you'd think he'd be a better shooter than 34% from 3.

Just assuming he'd be a 40% 3 point shooter is comical, he took a ton of threes when that line was moved in and when it moved back out he came crashing back to earth on the shot.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

No,....
Not against the old guard who had higher iq's and they were all known as zone busters.

Zone weakens basketball.


Art Barr

That old guard didn't bust zones at all. They didn't play against them

 

[inndaskKy]

zones were still new back then, players didnt understand them

High volume three point shooting is still new right now, players don't understand how to defend it yet.

 

[Art Barr]

00000000000000000000000000000022

That old guard didn't bust zones at all. They didn't play against them

Dawg, you must nit have watched much basketball in the old Gen to know how much of a zone busger the old guard was.
You could not run zone against those guys.


Art Barr

 

[Originalman]

Somewhat yeah. If there's alread a crowd before he catches then it makes it much harder to operate

Naw not really IMO. One the mavs were doubling with Dirk or a guard in that finals series. Prime Shaq would have split that double team or threw an elbow in a jokers jaw and knocked him down.

Two the second biggest impact that came with the zone and other rule changes is that the league eliminated physical play by big men. Meaning dudes like Shaq, mourning and others were not allowed to throw elbows and arms in the paint. The shyt Shaq was allowed to do vs Mutumbo in the finals in 2000.....Shaq was not allowed to do after the rule changes. After the rule changes that shyt was an automatic offensive foul.

 

[Originalman]

Line was 23'9" when he shot 30%

Just because he had a great form doesn't mean he'd be a great 3 point shooter, Ben McLemore's form is picture perfect and just looking at it you'd think he'd be a better shooter than 34% from 3.

Just assuming he'd be a 40% 3 point shooter is comical, he took a ton of threes when that line was moved in and when it moved back out he came crashing back to earth on the shot.

He also took a ton of threes when the line was shorter is because that was his shot. Jordan in his 30s loved that shot from about the moved in line to about 18 feet. He used that more and more as he got older as the bulls began to have multiple runs in the finals.

He mentioned that he didn't want to constantly drive during the season because it took a lot out of him. But he could drive within the range I mentioned and do a pull up shot (or get kick outs from others and knock that shot down).

But I believe MJ could have changed his game and shot more threes and become a better shooter from three. He just stated many times that he didn't believe in shooting them because they were a low percentage shot.

 

[Broke Wave]

Jordan couldn't hit threes, what Steph is doing is built around the 3 point line, so no Jordan wouldn't be doing this. Look at LeBron, Kobe, Westbrook and prime Wade as examples of what Jordan would have been capable of, mostly Wade since he didn't take many threes during his best years.

He'd still be great, but acting like he'd score 40-50ppg in an era where the game is played at a slower pace is retarded. His highest average was 37.1 in a league with more possessions per game than today.

I agree with the logic behind this, but I think wade is a gross understatement of his powers... He was taller and more athletic, not to mention a better shooter and passer... Is it a stretch to say he would have averaged 35 8 and 8 on 52 percent?

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

00000000000000000000000000000022

Dawg, you must nit have watched much basketball in the old Gen to know how much of a zone busger the old guard was.
You could not run zone against those guys.


Art Barr

you couldn't run a zone because it was not allowed in the first place

 

[Consumed]

The reason I say its premature is because the most important part of his "peak" season (the playoff run) hasn't even occurred yet.. If his team ends up like the '95 Sonics or '07 Mavs and loses in the first round to a 8 seed, this is no longer a conversation.. Or if he goes out like due to injury like D. Rose against the Sixers in 2012 then this is no longer a conversation..

Plus.. Who's to say a 27 year old (I know he just turned 28) has already had his definitive "peak" season anyway? He could just be figuring things out and be 2-3 years away from his true peak...

I just like to wait until the entire book or movie is finished before I give my full review..

It's still a conversation if Curry performs well but his team outside of him, for whatever reason, sucks and blows the series. Team success shouldn't have any bearing on the performance of an individual/where they rank among the elites. '06 Kobe is still one of the all time great individual seasons despite his game 7 meltdown and the team blowing a 3-2 lead. Last years Westbrook is a hell of alot better than Kidd in '03 despite his team not making the playoffs, T Mac never left the first round but he's got a year ('03) that compares well to just about any wing in league history regardless of accolades, so on and so forth

Curry getting injured and the subsequent collapse of the Warriors could actually add value to his status as the irreplaceable anchor of that team, just like it did for Robinson in '92 who anchored a top Spurs defense and watched them crater to near league worst without him or Walton in '78. Thats a rather tragic circumstance though

I get what you're saying but it seems like postponing the inevitable more than anything if we can't even have a serious discussion about the two. We got 64 games + last years postseason of evidence that suggests this ain't a fluke and he can sustain this going into to playoffs....even if he's got a higher peak than this, it wouldn't matter since he's arguably playing better than Magic ever did right now.

 

[Cel 510 kid ados forever]

Stephen curry not no magic Johnson. Stop these crazy post..I take magic in 87' the nba was way better than compared to know. Magic would avg 18 or 19 assist today. Probably 25ppg. The nba today sucks. Curry would avg 19ppg in 1987. And would been knocked out of a few games. This is a joke. Curry not in my top 75 players all time. He being overrated for four good years. And two great ones

 

[KOBE]

Jordan couldn't hit threes, what Steph is doing is built around the 3 point line, so no Jordan wouldn't be doing this. Look at LeBron, Kobe, Westbrook and prime Wade as examples of what Jordan would have been capable of, mostly Wade since he didn't take many threes during his best years.

He'd still be great, but acting like he'd score 40-50ppg in an era where the game is played at a slower pace is retarded. His highest average was 37.1 in a league with more possessions per game than today.

In 92-93 Jordan averaged 32.6 a game, as a 32 year old with an average league pace of 96.8. The average pace in today's league is 95.8. The Warriors current pace is 102.1.

"he'd still be great" ya because Jordan would sure as hell struggle so much these days, right? He wouldn't just be outright dominant like he was his whole career, just "still great". Talk about pace as Warriors don't play at an absurd pace themselves.

Wanna talk about free throws or do you really believe that Michael Jordan wouldn't get more closes in today's league while James Harden walks to the line 10 times per game? This isn't "the 80's/90's" were more physical type shyt, this is outright truth that he wouldn't be walking to the line on damn near every drive and I know you don't want me to show the type of contact he was getting on the regular.

I don't think 'underrating' Magic's scoring ability is really a factor in this comparison. I mean the real issue here is how most will underrate and overlook Curry's ability to generate open looks and points for his team by simply referencing the box score and highlighting his lack of assists - when if you were to go over their respective peaks with a fine-toothed comb, the margin of how many points/looks they generate WITHOUT scoring is a lot closer (even favoring Curry) than the margin in their scoring abilities.

So their playmaking is that close, but yet their scoring is SO FAR apart because one hits threes while the other would post up on you and take you down low. What are you gonna do when you're six inches shorter? Oh right, teams would send the double team immediately these days and do you wanna talk about how many "open looks" would be generated with Magic in the post on that Warriors team with a bunch of shooters on the outside? I don't think you really grasp what it meant to be a 6'9" player with his playmaking ability.

I'm not gonna sit here and let you pretend that Curry is generating all these open looks himself because that's just straight up stupid. Their offense is built beautifully and he plays alongside another all time great 3 point shooter with a bunch of other players that spread the floor. This isn't just "Curry" generating open looks and that's what you're literally trying to make out in this post.

You're ignoring the Warriors coaching schemes, you dismiss the extra passes and three point shooting of the team, and you're ignoring the fact that unlike Magic, Curry has a surplus of spot up shooters to pass to. Their ability to generate open looks and find those players to get assists is as close as their margin in scoring ability if you want to try to paint the picture like that because if Magic was on this team he'd be averaging 15 assists easily as there would be need to make the extra pass with the stuff he was doing on the court. Maybe you should go watch some games from the 80's and get out with his nonsense.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Stephen curry not no magic Johnson. Stop these crazy post..I take magic in 87' the nba was way better than compared to know. Magic would avg 18 or 19 assist today. Probably 25ppg. The nba today sucks. Curry would avg 19ppg in 1987. And would been knocked out of a few games. This is a joke. Curry not in my top 75 players all time. He being overrated for four good years. And two great ones

#WPOY2016

 

[Liquid]

I'm amazed at how many folk don't read shyt properly before posting.

Are you really amazed?