This is how it ends: Bernie proposes $15T tax increase, including increase on middle class

Dr. Acula

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The DC establishment’s latest attack on Bernie Sanders’ tax plan has just been thoroughly debunked.

On Friday afternoon, the Tax Policy Center (TPC) — a project of centrist think tank Brookings Institution — published a thoroughly-flawed analysis of Bernie Sanders’ tax plan. The TPC claimed that by raising $15.3 trillion in new revenue over ten years to fund Sanders’ proposals for free public college, universal health care, paid family and medical leave, and millions of new infrastructure jobs, the overall income of the average American would drop by approximately 12 percent.

However, the analysis was fundamentally disingenuous, as it analyzes the tax increases in a vacuum and does not account for the tremendous amount of savings that would be realized by families using public health insurance and colleges. It also does not account for the overall economic benefit of 13 million new public sector jobs and the resulting flow of new money into the economy.

“We do not account for the effects of the new government programs on income,” TPC co-founder Leonard Burman toldPolitico, in a revealing quote buried thirteen paragraphs belowPolitico‘s misleading headline. “We’re not really experts on the spending component.”

Neither Politico nor the TPC bothered to compare Sanders’ new tax rates, which most adversely affect the richest 0.1 percent of Americans, with the amount of money families would save should Sanders’ proposals become reality.

Warren Gunnels, who serves as Sen. Sanders’ senior policy adviser, pointed out in a scathing press release that had the TPC bothered to do the comparative math, they would have found that an overwhelming majority would have more money in their pockets under Sanders’ proposals, not less. Gunnels pointed to a study by the nonpartisan think tank Citizens for Tax Justice (CTJ), which compared the new taxes to fund Sanders’ health care plan with the money families would save under a hypothetical single-payer health care system in the US.

“The analysis from Citizens for Tax Justice found that 95 percent of American households will see their take-home pay go up, not down, under Sanders’ Medicare-for-all plan, which is paid for by his progressive tax plan,” Gunnels said. “Citizens for Tax Justice also found that middle-class families would see their take-home pay go up by more than $3,200 a year under Sanders’ plan.

According to CTJ’s analysis, everyone but the richest 5 percent of Americans would end up with a higher after-tax income under a single-payer health care system. CTJ arrived at their numerical conclusions using a microsimulation model from the Institution on Taxation and Economic Policy:



CTJ explained that, after doing a side-by-side comparison with Sanders’ tax plan and the money saved from single-payer health care, it was clear both workers and businesses would save money.

“The reason that Sanders’ plan increases average after-tax incomes for all but the highest-income groups, even as it substantially increases tax revenues, is that the plan would replace employer-provided health care with universal health insurance for all Americans,” CTJ wrote. “Thus, workers would get comprehensive health insurance in addition to higher wages.”

Gunnels continued to tear apart the TPC’s flawed analysis by pointing out that the economists ignored the significant economic boost of 13 million new public sector jobs, all of the money Americans would keep by not having to pay for public college tuition, and Sanders’ proposal to expand Social Security, which would leave retirees with more after-tax income.


“Sanders has a plan to create and maintain at least 13 million jobs rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. It is widely accepted among many economists that rebuilding roads, bridges, drinking water facilities, airports and other infrastructure needs creates jobs for Americans in the short-term while allowing commerce to flow more smoothly in the long-term, a win-win for prosperity in the U.S. The Tax Policy Center did not look at that.

“Sanders has a plan to make public colleges and universities tuition free that would save the typical middle class family $9,400 a year. Creating a workforce that is more educated and less bogged down in student debt would benefit the economy immensely. The Tax Policy Center did not look at that.

“Sanders’ has a plan to extend and expand Social Security boosting the income of senior citizens by an average of about $1,600 a year. The Tax Policy Center did not look at Bernie’s plan to expand Social Security.

Read Gunnels’ full statement debunking the study here.
After the Obamacare fight....

You guys really think we're going to get Universal Healthcare? This isn't happening. The reason Obamacare is such a mess because it was butchered in congress in order to get something that would be passed through both houses. I doubt this scenario will ever come to fruition and I predict what will happen is we will maybe get dilapidated and gutted legislation that gives us "free" healthcare or colleges to some extent but it will be so broken that we will not see these savings.

The ACA fight last a year or so if I remember and a lot of the goals towards universal healthcare (single-payer) were complete non-starters. :francis:.

As we all know in the end, ACA only benefited health insurance companies in the end.
 

Red Shield

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The same people who brought us neo-liberal, trickle down economics are the same people who will fight Sanders plan.

But mark my words brehs, in the next election cycle whether it is the midterms or 2020, these type of policies will start to become much more talked about and this movement Sanders is building upon isn't going to go away any time soon.

And if the economy crashes again, people will be very receptive to these policies as the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street do a repeat of 2008

People can talk about these types of policies..as much as they want. It doesn't matter...

when the economy crashes again.. you will be getting war :manny:
 

MrSinnister

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After the Obamacare fight....

You guys really think we're going to get Universal Healthcare? This isn't happening. The reason Obamacare is such a mess because it was butchered in congress in order to get something that would be passed through both houses. I doubt this scenario will ever come to fruition and I predict what will happen is we will maybe get dilapidated and gutted legislation that gives us "free" healthcare or colleges to some extent but it will be so broken that we will not see these savings.

The ACA fight last a year or so if I remember and a lot of the goals towards universal healthcare (single-payer) were complete non-starters. :francis:.

As we all know in the end, ACA only benefited health insurance companies in the end.
Should have went for universal in the beginning. Obama wanted to get rich though, and sold out the American people. That's the only bad part, as I'm sure this plan will be argued for 3 years. It has to get done though. I'm completely serious about this.

If we don't get Bernie in, then whatever
As many people in here see, we're heading to some type of precipice. The establishment says we can wish our way into jumping it, if we just continue identity politics and getting :umad: when we ask if they're going to do what they said.

People like Bernie know we've been taking on a lot of water, so we have to dismantle the ship, while still in the water, and make it solvent. It's your choice on who to trust, but I can guarantee Hillary will stay with trickle down.

I just want to try Keynesian for a decade and see what happens. We have a lot of productivity and monetary power right now. Change is hard though, especially when both sides are so invested in it.
 

Dr. Acula

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Also should add it's my belief that the solution to these problems is not a scorch earth tactic of completely replacing the system as it doesn't get rid of the problem completely. Just like with ACA, the health insurance companies loved it because now it only puts more money in their pockets and it doesn't dismantle the issues that are causing high costs in the first place

Same thing with college. The reason why college is so unaffordable is partly due to state defunding their schools under republican cost cutting polices and as a result schools raise tuition prices. Also there is sizable amount of cost that goes into administration. College wouldn't be such a price burden if these issues were taken care of first instead of simply taxing people to pay for an already inflated cost.
 

MrSinnister

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People can talk about these types of policies..as much as they want. It doesn't matter...

when the economy crashes again.. you will be getting war :manny:
So defeatist. There will be a period of time ship would be taking water and gov't trying to find out how to keep the citizens in check. Then the blame comes. Theres no timeframe from the crash until countries start firing on each other.

Some of you just troll life period. Again, the group that is the most affected by any economic downturn, and this has been proven, talks the most shyt about change and foreign concepts (they should not be foreign to us by now...seriously, what the fukk we do whenever we're in a rut?). I wish I could have a discussion with an actual appointment of the right, not an opponent of the mentally lazy.

fukk, some of you people would've kept us in the caveman stage for development. The current trickle down has proven to be boom bust, and we spend too much time fixing the bust, and less and less in the boom. It's time to try something else.
 

MrSinnister

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Also should add it's my belief that the solution to these problems is not a scorch earth tactic of completely replacing the system as it doesn't get rid of the problem completely. Just like with ACA, the health insurance companies loved it because now it only puts more money in their pockets and it doesn't dismantle the issues that are causing high costs in the first place

Same thing with college. The reason why college is so unaffordable is partly due to state defunding their schools under republican cost cutting polices and as a result schools raise tuition prices. Also there is sizable amount of cost that goes into administration. College wouldn't be such a price burden if these issues were taken care of first instead of simply taxing people to pay for an already inflated cost.
Yes it is. We are about to either hit deflation or hyperinflation.
 

Red Shield

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So defeatist. There will be a period of time ship would be taking water and gov't trying to find out how to keep the citizens in check. Then the blame comes. Theres no timeframe from the crash until countries start firing on each other.

defeatist? Not at all... I just think these arguments are pointless :manny:

The govt/elite already know how to keep citizens in check...
And war will come quickly...why? Because quiet as kept, a bunch of nations are currently gearing up for it :sas2:
 

GunRanger

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what happens to private insurance companies and their employees under his plan?
 

LurkMoar

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That tax plan is ridiculous and college shouldn't be free when I have a shyt load of student loans. How about free people of student loan debt first?



Im sure bernie will forgive all student loans :skip:


Thats what some of my friends think :pachaha:
 

CHL

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No they're not.

Greece has collapsed. Spain and Italy are almost there. France is at 0.3% GDP growth. Germany is at 0.1% GDP growth.

Europe is in decline.
No shyt advanced industrialised economies aren't going to have as high a rate of GDP growth. It's got nothing to do with this.

And you evidently don't have the faintest idea what has caused Greece's collapse.
:camby:
 

CHL

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didnt bernie himself say he wanted to propose 15 trillion to earn?

lets do the math!

15,000,000,000,000 <--- 15 TriLLION

there are 318.9 million people in america

318,900,000 <----318.9 milion


if we divide them, EACH PERSON has $47,000 to pay out to his proposal.

BUT!

not all 318.9 million people in america pay taxes or is of age to.


so how is he gonna get his $$$ to meet his 15 trillion dollar gain he is proposing during his presidency of socialism? :jbhmm:

i think my extra $4000 a year IM GONNA HAVE TO PAY was correct.

:shaq2:

maybe even more.
Do you comprehend the concept of tax brackets?
 

Savior

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Does Bernie seriously think the average voter is gonna sit there and calculate whether their yearly savings in healthcare premiums is gonna outdo the tax increase they get? I dunno who's advising this dude but if he had a 10% chance of winning before its down to 0 now :russ:
 

superunknown23

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Should have went for universal in the beginning.
With these conservative "democrats" in office? Not a chance in hell.:russ:
Joe Lieberman: He loudly threatened to vote against the bill if the public option was included (his wife was also a health insurance executive)
Ben Nelson: Obama had to bend over to get his vote... Remember the "cornhusker kickback"?
Max Baucus
Mary Landrieu
Arlen Specter
(he switched parties in 2009 and it still couldn't save his ass)
Mark Pryor
Jon Tester
Blanche Lincoln
Jim Webb
Evan Bayh
Kent Conrad

The bill passed 60-39 just to break the filibuster thru reconciliation. Obama needed every single one of those votes (and none of these Senators were reelected).
 
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