Simmons has been pushing this narrative since the all star break hardbody. Not surprised his fanboys in the media are co signing. I'm expecting a full article from Grantland as soon as the season pushing this. BTW, I keep hearing winning % for one player as if this isn't a team sport. I like how that has suddenly become a measuring stick for NBA players all of a sudden
They make the playoffs. But let's not change the subject. In 03, Duncan won with less help than Kobe ever won with. Kobe always had a top 5 big man when he won. Duncan won with a team full of role players...not one other all star.
Where they were drafted is insignificant, everyone knows the Spurs know how to pick players.
Still, none of those players were ever on Ginobili or Tony Parker levels, breh.
Shannon Brown has a bigger role in Phoenix, but he only averages two more points more than he did as a bench player for the Lakers
Famar and Sasha (One of my favorite Lakers) also got expanded roles on the nets, but their output never went signicantly higher than when they played with Kobe
Devean George was never a good player . His peak was the 2003 playoffs (where he only averaged 8 points )
Out the gate, Ginoboli and Parker had better (way better) #'s than those players have had their entire careers. The Spurs just drafted better
We did drop the ball with Trevor Ariza, but he wanted more than he was worth after that one playoff series and never really got the chance to grow with the Lakers
Time to drop some irrefutable facts that are guaranteed to make Kobe stans mad as fukk...
Nah, but seriously, now that I have your attention: can't some of you weirdos appreciate basketball apart from idolizing one player? And do you really believe in some of these bizarre, contrived slants you concoct to make one great player seem more impressive than another great player?
Is it really an egregious claim to say Tim Duncan is more valuable than Kobe, or vice versa?
Also, can people retire the retarded talking point of Tim Duncan/Shaq only have good Finals numbers because they went against worse big men? No fukking kidding, when you are head & shoulders better than the average starter at your position, it proves your value, it doesn't detract from it. When Kobe scored 81 against the Raptors did you ignore it because Toronto had bullshyt perimeter defense and their coach refused to double team? That's how basketball works - you play whomever is in front of you. Great big men are rare, which is what makes them so valuable when they come along. They create the sort of mismatches that completely alter the way the gaame is played on both ends.
Duncan's value isn't purely in numbers (although the numbers have been absurdly consistently, his efficiency is unquestionable, and his career finals numbers are otherworldly), it's also in the way he changes the way the game in played on both ends, especially in terms of spacing and execution.
Pointing out Dunc's career greatness isn't a slight to Kobe, who is also an all time great player. What's the big fukking deal? The NBA will be a worse league when either retires, and a case can be made for either as the best player of his era. Can't you appreciate basketball greatness without an agenda?
Duncan>>>>>>>>tobe da snitch rapist and it's not even remotely close, Dunc don't miss the playoffs, Dunc don't quit on his teammates in a Game 7, Dunc knows how to defer to teammates, Dunc's "star" teammates get injured and his team keeps winning without excuses unlike the "we gonna go 73-9... it's a miracle we even made the playoffs with this roster and these injuries" 2013 Lakers. That psychopath instagram whore got a shredded achilles, is suing his own mother, one of his kids looks down syndromey, is on twitter like an unprofessional retard critiquing his team during playoff games... meanwhile Dunc Jumps Up To Give Beatdowns is back in the Finals, calmly and quietly getting rid of his wife instead of putting bootleg jail ink on his arm in her honor and copping a multimillion dollar ring for some mexic*nt video tramp, and continues to smugly dispatch his much younger peers (Dwight got trolled, Z-Bo the bully basically bowed down and called Tim his idol) with the detached coolness of an assassin. kobe on a treadmill looking like the fukkin Michelin Man praying he can lace em up again to break some records at the expense of his teammates' joy and success. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Time to drop some irrefutable facts that are guaranteed to make Kobe stans mad as fukk...
Nah, but seriously, now that I have your attention: can't some of you weirdos appreciate basketball apart from idolizing one player? And do you really believe in some of these bizarre, contrived slants you concoct to make one great player seem more impressive than another great player?
Is it really an egregious claim to say Tim Duncan is more valuable than Kobe, or vice versa?
Also, can people retire the retarded talking point of Tim Duncan/Shaq only have good Finals numbers because they went against worse big men? No fukking kidding, when you are head & shoulders better than the average starter at your position, it proves your value, it doesn't detract from it. When Kobe scored 81 against the Raptors did you ignore it because Toronto had bullshyt perimeter defense and their coach refused to double team? That's how basketball works - you play whomever is in front of you. Great big men are rare, which is what makes them so valuable when they come along. They create the sort of mismatches that completely alter the way the gaame is played on both ends.
Duncan's value isn't purely in numbers (although the numbers have been absurdly consistently, his efficiency is unquestionable, and his career finals numbers are otherworldly), it's also in the way he changes the way the game in played on both ends, especially in terms of spacing and execution.
Pointing out Dunc's career greatness isn't a slight to Kobe, who is also an all time great player. What's the big fukking deal? The NBA will be a worse league when either retires, and a case can be made for either as the best player of his era. Can't you appreciate basketball greatness without an agenda?
Duncan>>>>>>>>tobe da snitch rapist and it's not even remotely close, Dunc don't miss the playoffs, Dunc don't quit on his teammates in a Game 7, Dunc knows how to defer to teammates, Dunc's "star" teammates get injured and his team keeps winning without excuses unlike the "we gonna go 73-9... it's a miracle we even made the playoffs with this roster and these injuries" 2013 Lakers. That psychopath instagram whore got a shredded achilles, is suing his own mother, one of his kids looks down syndromey, is on twitter like an unprofessional retard critiquing his team during playoff games... meanwhile Dunc Jumps Up To Give Beatdowns is back in the Finals, calmly and quietly getting rid of his wife instead of putting bootleg jail ink on his arm in her honor and copping a multimillion dollar ring for some mexic*nt video tramp, and continues to smugly dispatch his much younger peers (Dwight got trolled, Z-Bo the bully basically bowed down and called Tim his idol) with the detached coolness of an assassin. kobe on a treadmill looking like the fukkin Michelin Man praying he can lace em up again to break some records at the expense of his teammates' joy and success. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Nah Duncan didn't make Ginobili and Parker. But there is something to be said for his selflessness and willingness to integrate them in as offensive focal points smoothly with no hiccups, not complaining about touches or resisting change or anything. And credit Pop for that transition of course, but Duncan allows himself to be coached and doesn't offer resistance like many other superstars do.
What do you think Ginobili and Parker's development and performance would've been like on the Lakers? That's an interesting question.
I think Ginobili might have flourished with Kobe because Kobe would let Manu be Manu. Ginobili has a similar approach to the game as Kobe; that hyper-aggressive, reckless, killer instinct. Kobe has said he respects that about him multiple times. Kobe would probably see him chucking up 3's at odd moments and slashing recklessly into 3 defenders and be like Plus Ginobili's a good facilitator. Kobe and Ginobili playing together in transition would've been
But I think Kobe and a young Tony Parker would've been a nightmare. Parker had no J until like his 8th season and didn't have much court vision at first. Kobe wouldn't let him dribble around and try to penetrate to the rack and shoot floaters in lane all day. He'd become not much of a factor.
This is all speculative. And I won't knock anyone for picking Kobe over Duncan. But it goes back to what I said initially, I think most GMs would take Duncan because of his malleability and consistency in any situation. He's proven he can win with another top front court player, perimeter all stars, and just role players, and at different paces and styles. You could put him next to Gasol, Shaq, or Bynum and it would work because he's effective in the high post or the low block.
Time to drop some irrefutable facts that are guaranteed to make Kobe stans mad as fukk...
Nah, but seriously, now that I have your attention: can't some of you weirdos appreciate basketball apart from idolizing one player? And do you really believe in some of these bizarre, contrived slants you concoct to make one great player seem more impressive than another great player?
Is it really an egregious claim to say Tim Duncan is more valuable than Kobe, or vice versa?
Also, can people retire the retarded talking point of Tim Duncan/Shaq only have good Finals numbers because they went against worse big men? No fukking kidding, when you are head & shoulders better than the average starter at your position, it proves your value, it doesn't detract from it. When Kobe scored 81 against the Raptors did you ignore it because Toronto had bullshyt perimeter defense and their coach refused to double team? That's how basketball works - you play whomever is in front of you. Great big men are rare, which is what makes them so valuable when they come along. They create the sort of mismatches that completely alter the way the gaame is played on both ends.
Duncan's value isn't purely in numbers (although the numbers have been absurdly consistently, his efficiency is unquestionable, and his career finals numbers are otherworldly), it's also in the way he changes the way the game in played on both ends, especially in terms of spacing and execution.
Pointing out Dunc's career greatness isn't a slight to Kobe, who is also an all time great player. What's the big fukking deal? The NBA will be a worse league when either retires, and a case can be made for either as the best player of his era. Can't you appreciate basketball greatness without an agenda?
Duncan>>>>>>>>tobe da snitch rapist and it's not even remotely close, Dunc don't miss the playoffs, Dunc don't quit on his teammates in a Game 7, Dunc knows how to defer to teammates, Dunc's "star" teammates get injured and his team keeps winning without excuses unlike the "we gonna go 73-9... it's a miracle we even made the playoffs with this roster and these injuries" 2013 Lakers. That psychopath instagram whore got a shredded achilles, is suing his own mother, one of his kids looks down syndromey, is on twitter like an unprofessional retard critiquing his team during playoff games... meanwhile Dunc Jumps Up To Give Beatdowns is back in the Finals, calmly and quietly getting rid of his wife instead of putting bootleg jail ink on his arm in her honor and copping a multimillion dollar ring for some mexic*nt video tramp, and continues to smugly dispatch his much younger peers (Dwight got trolled, Z-Bo the bully basically bowed down and called Tim his idol) with the detached coolness of an assassin. kobe on a treadmill looking like the fukkin Michelin Man praying he can lace em up again to break some records at the expense of his teammates' joy and success. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That 81-point argument is slightly flawed. There have been countless atrocious defensive wings and not one single one of them have even had 70 hung on them., let alone 81.when you score 81 it's not even about the defender, it's about having exceptional offensive talent. Other than that, good post.
past 4 yrs dont count braugh only the yrs 1999,2003,2005,2007 stand out to them. This thread showing how much people hate Kobe
In the end both Kobe and TD going down as some of the best to ever step on the court and if they had played together would probably have won 10 straight rings
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. His peak was the 2003 playoffs (where he only averaged 8 points
)
you then. We all got to see Farmer, Brown in college and knew they wouldnt be all star players 
Plus Ginobili's a good facilitator. Kobe and Ginobili playing together in transition would've been 
See post