I get what you're saying in regards to the first paragraph and thanks for clarifying. 50 is a great example. I never got the hype behind him but he was unquestionably that dude in 2003. Never thout GRODT was classic either - but still he dominated. I do think you value mainstream success more than I do, but it is what it is.Not in the slightest..but I understand how you come to that conclusion...it's a nuanced point that I'm making and "oh so you think sales mean you're the best" is one of the easiest strawmen to construct...there are definitely talents that lend themselves to success, like songwriting and hitmaking, but success in and of itself is not synonymous with talent...this concept of being "that dude" is not even solely tied to success, especially not strictly mainstream success...I'm talking the guys that are impacting, dictating and directing the pulse of the game...in the way that Rick Ross has been contention for it while never sniffing a platinum plaque, while a guy like Macklemore who's bout to touch a million and has multiple #1 one pop hits ain't even on the ballot...it takes a bit of objectivity, that for whatever reason a lot of people simply don't have, to be honest with yourself and admit when somebody is that dude who you may not particularly dig as much as the hip hop populace at large does...but at the end of the day, certain shyt just can't be denied...like I hold it as almost a badge of honor to be one of the biggest 50 Cent haters on the site, but I'm first to admit that he was in unquestionably that dude or in contention during his run in the mid 2000s...I hate the Heat more than is prolly physically healthy, but they got the chip
Which leads me to this:
Name me who are the top 5 rap game MVPs candidates over let's say the last 2 years....because if Drake not only isn't one of them, but nowhere close...you're either in flat out denial or completely out of touch with the current pulse of the game...there's certain shyt that are just fundamental observable facts, that you may not agree with or are unhappy about, but are truth in reality nevertheless
If I told you Started From the Bottom was one of the biggest anthems of this year...and that Drake singlehandedly took a random mixtape track from a random up and coming ATL rap group, threw a verse on it, and turned it into one of the biggest athems in hip hop this summer simply by virtue of being "that dude" right now ...what would be your response? a subjective qualitative critique of his verses? If so, I'm sorry...but tha's not really how anthems work
The bolded is EXACTLY what the issue is...at least it's entirely what this discussion is about...I responded to a post saying Drake would love to have Common's career, and you responded to my post disagreeing with me...it's not subjective as much is it speculative (based on what we know about Drake and the things he's explicitly said about his intentions and outlook on the game are)...now if you are instead randomly now changing the argument, and attempting to make it which of their careers YOU (subjectively) think is "better" in a hippity hop context...that's fine, but it just doesn't really have shyt to do with me or my post you initially quoted
Disagree with this completely, and it's kind of indicative of the short-sightedness and overall folly of the "real hip hop son!" crowd in general....can separate the wheat from the chaff according to who? What are about the hip hop fans that knew their history, live and died the music...but didn't think Biggie, Prodigy (or Jay as he actually said) or Nas were the best? There is no one set of approved opinions that define one to be a "core" or "true" or "real" hip hop fan...opinions are just opinions, some are more widely held than others...but simply opinions all the same...
The core as you're describing it, absolutely did lose the war...acts that were being vilified as killing hip hop by that crowd back then....see: Dr. Dre, Pac, Ice Cube and pretty much the entirety of West Coast Gangsta Rap that Common decried on I USED to Love and Biggie and later his symbolic successor Jay-Z and the entirety of East Coast Flossy Big Willy-ism as attacked by Jeru, BCC and mocked by The Roots....have been now been exalted as hip hop's most holy and iconic figures...people pretend like they were never under fire and universally loved, retroactively making them saints in "real hip hop son!' mythology on some Catholic Churck tricknology type shyt and just apply that same sentiment to the newer acts making their mark on the current scene (and it's a perpetual process...the real hip hop heads used to crucify Cash Money when they first blew, now all we hear is how much of a classic 400 Degreez and how Mannie Fresh is untouchable rap legend
I misread your prior post to say that Drake was top five that dude all time. No doubt he was the top dog in 2010-2011. Kendrick took his spot last year though. A d he seems to be struggling this year. We'll see though - Marvin's Room and Headlines were weak singles to me but I loved Take Care and The Motto so maybe he's doing the same thing he did last time.
I would disagree about Started From The Bottom on your criteria for what an anthem is (which seems to be just very popular song). I'm talking about Anthems. Shook Ones Part 2, Troy, etc...drake has nothing approaching that. Of course, time will tell.
Unless Drake speaks on the subject we are left with our comparisons of their careers. What else would we be talking about? unless youve got some insight on what Drake thinks. Drake could say he wants Mike Jones career - that would just make him an idiot!
You are going down a slippery slope to relativism that devalues the artistic achievements of the music. Of course the Core doesn't speak as a monolith on every possible opinion related to the music, but if you were to argue Gucci Mane > Rakim - you'd have a hard time convincing me you knew what the fukk you were talking about!
Every artist you listed was considered a holy and iconic figure at the time - sure their were disputes about the direction and content of the music. But no o e thought those guys were wack. What you are talking about was a very small minority of fans that did not speak for the core. Sort of how you origins not described what the core was. The hip hop son people.
I thought Ha was the most awful thing ever released and I stand by that. Cash Money has zero classics to me.
I disagree about the extent to which commerce won out over art and integrity. Macklemore and Flo are artists on the margins of hip hop.
