What Is The Coli's Thoughts On Voting For The Corrupt vs. Not Voting At All

[DEAD7]

what are you doing today that will allow black people to have "complete autonomy" tomorrow? i think voting, and specifically voting for Democrats, is the answer,

Based on what?

 

[DEAD7]

Even if you didnt vote, I think as a tax payer(and as a minority) you can complain about how Bernie was railroaded by the DNC
Not voting for the lesser* when the process was rigged against what you considered to be a "good" candidate... seems perfectly fine.

 

[NoMayo15]

If you reliably vote for the "lesser of two evils", then you give the candidates absolutely no incentive to be less evil.

You're saying the next Democrat don't have to do anything other than be better than Trump. She can spend her entire campaign appealing to moderate casually racist White voters and whatever Wall Street money she can grab, just as long as she's "better than Trump", the lowest bar in human history.

If you say that you have a minimum standard the candidate has to surpass or you won't vote at all, then you DO have an influence on the race. They have to decide whether they'll push towards the middle at the risk of losing you. They HAVE to do something to keep you.

Those claiming that it doesn't get you the "best result" are insanely short sided. They're trading in helping a crappy candidate win in this year's election for worse candidates in every future election. Then the next election they'll do it again. And they'll be so confused as to why the candidates keep getting progressively worse every time.

Voting for the "lesser of two evils" in Trump's world gives up all influence you have on the process. You might as well just say, "I like the people in power just as they are, and don't mind if they get worse."

I agree with you on 100% of what you said.
Very well said too.
@Call Me James & @mc_brew continuing down path means things ony get worse

Unless you can demonstrate candidates get progressively worse over time, than the point isn't a valid one.

Personally, I don't think that's how the world works. Some election cycles, candidates are devoted to doublespeak and obfuscating truth, as they seemed to be in 2016's POTUS election. But once in a while a person runs that the people can believe is honest, just, and has the country's best interests in mind.

And I reject this false equivalency that we were choosing between two "evils". Regardless of Clinton's flaws, the idea of a Trump presidency was demonstrably more troubling, more terrifying for the most of us. When trying to predict how both presidencies would likely be, I knew at the very least it was unlikely that she would damage America's standing in the world and diplomatic relations by tweeting nonsense late at night. Is that an incredibly low bar? Sure. But abstaining from voting wouldn't have helped prevent Trump from winning. You really don't understand how dangerous some of us viewed a potential Trump presidency.

 

[OH SOHH TRILL]

Based on what?

-Civil Rights Act
-We do better under democratic leadership (Under Democratic Presidents, Minorities Make Economic Gains - And So Do Whites | Scholars Strategy Network)
-Republicans use to use dog whistle politics to win elections and govern, now they just go with outright racism.
-Barack Obama (as a symbol and his policies)
-Criminal justice reform
-Voter suppression (if republican don't want people like me to vote, should i be voting for them?)
-Liberal supreme court justices. If we had more, things like Terry v. Ohio and thus stop and frisk wouldn't be a thing.

I could go on, but basically, because I pay attention. Democrats do things intended to help black people that sometimes backfire (1990s crime bills for example). Republicans are intentionally attempting to harm black people, stop us from voting, have us harassed by cops, remove the safety net that many of us need, increase the police state as directed at black people, and generally ignore issues related to poor people.

 

[mc_brew]

The problem with the idea of "not voting" is that there's always more on the ballot than the Presidential election.

Your vote may not matter for the Presidential election, but it could be the deciding vote in many local elections.

Your vote could be the one that stops local judges and "good ol' boy" sheriffs from perverting justice. Or keeps state reps and senators who serve corporate interests out of power.

I can't take anyone who doesn't vote seriously. Especially if they discuss politics frequently.

....very good points..... the founding fathers never expected that only benevolent people would run for president.... in fact, they EXPECTED monsters to run... that is why they built checks and balances into the system....

i had no problem voting for hillary because i knew she wouldn't be able to win the house and senate, so the repubs would have been a check on her... .with trump, there is no check on him (or should i say, no where near the check that would have been on hillary)...

i get it, people want to vote for someone pure... i don't think there are many pure people out there... that is why we create systems that make it difficult for people to abuse power.... those checks are not perfect and corrupt politicians do slip through the cracks... but we do have checks and balances for a reason....

as you said, one must look at who is being elected at the local and state levels and also in congress... these are the checks on corrupt politicians....

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

Regardless of Clinton's flaws, the idea of a Trump presidency was demonstrably more troubling, more terrifying for the most of us. When trying to predict how both presidencies would likely be, I knew at the very least it was unlikely that she would damage America's standing in the world and diplomatic relations by tweeting nonsense late at night.

Good Lord, if Hillary tweeted any of the shyt Trump's tweeted, Fox News would have psychiatrists on every segment to talk about how she's obviously clinically insane.

 

[BoBurnz]

Good Lord, if Hillary tweeted any of the shyt Trump's tweeted, Fox News would have psychiatrists on every segment to talk about how she's obviously clinically insane.

We've become so conditioned to the madness we really have lost the perspective that if the POTUS was tweeting one thing like this 2 years ago and had a D next to his name it would be national news for a year.

 

[AlainLocke]

Voting for corruption leads to more corruption...

Voting for the corrupt party enables more corruption...

If you look at voting as a consent to govern...that means you consented to corrupt politics.

So I rather not vote at all...

 

[BoBurnz]

Voting for corruption leads to more corruption...

Voting for the corrupt party enables more corruption...

If you look at voting as a consent to govern...that means you consented to corrupt politics.

So I rather not vote at all...

Name your local councilman.

 

[AlainLocke]

Name your local councilman.

What does that have to do with anything lol....

 

[BoBurnz]

What does that have to do with anything lol....

Then how you know if they are corrupt or not? It has everything to do with it. Local politics are your real avenue to affect radical and significant change in your area and your day to day life.

You should know who your councilman is, who your DA is, who your local Judge is.

nikka don't be proud of being ignorant.

 

[AlainLocke]

Then how you know if they are corrupt or not? It has everything to do with it. Local politics are your real avenue to affect radical and significant change in your area and your day to day life.

You should know who your councilman is, who your DA is, who your local Judge is.

nikka don't be proud of being ignorant.

This is a hypothetical about voting for corruption..

 

[BoBurnz]

This is a hypothetical about voting for corruption..

And your solution to fixing this perceived corruption is to throw your hands up and not participate in the process in even it's most basic level, I.E. voting.

You don't just vote for president nikka.

 

[Pressure]

Voting for corruption leads to more corruption...

Voting for the corrupt party enables more corruption...

If you look at voting as a consent to govern...that means you consented to corrupt politics.

So I rather not vote at all...

By that same logic not voting allows even more Corruption.

This is why I don't take these slippery slope arguments at face value.

 

[AlainLocke]

By that same logic not voting allows even more Corruption.

This is why I don't take these slippery slope arguments at face value.

There are other political actions you can take besides voting...yeah...