What went wrong: All of EJ Manuel's throws tonight

[NYC Rebel]

huh? fukk are you talking about? QBs get their passes batted down all the time...nothing a big deal

I'm talking about him staring down the receivers being the reason they were batted down.

I was just listening to NFL radio where Tim Brown and Pat Kirwin were saying the same thing, talking about him being 6'5 he should avoid it, but him staring down receivers led to it.


But you know better than me or those guys.

 

[yseJ]

hell, I know if Im the coach and on 3rd and long on own half my qb improvises, dances around and then fires a crazy pass to a covered WR and WR makes the play for a first down..

Ill walk up to the qb and tell him to not ever do that bullshyt again. its ok to throw away the ball/check down/tuck and slide.
there is absolutely nothing wrong with punting the ball in that situation. beats the shyt out of committing a turnover

 

[NYC Rebel]

hell, I know if Im the coach and on 3rd and long on own half my qb improvises, dances around and then fires a crazy pass to a covered WR and WR makes the play for a first down..

Ill walk up to the qb and tell him to not ever do that bullshyt again. its ok to throw away the ball/check down/tuck and slide.
there is absolutely nothing wrong with punting the ball in that situation. beats the shyt out of committing a turnover

I'll ask my qb to try to make a second read before automatically hitting the checkdown or running after the first one is taken. Why have other receivers out there if you aren't asked to look for them? That's EJs issue...he makes one read...then checkdown. And on 3rd and long?

Why state that as good?

 

[yseJ]

I'll ask my qb to try to make a second read before automatically hitting the checkdown or running after the first one is taken. Why have other receivers out there if you aren't asked to look for them? That's EJs issue...he makes on read...checkdown. And on 3rd and long?

Why state that as good?

I agree with that

again, Im not arguing about ej in particular. Im arguing about 'timidness' and 'lack of willingness to go deep/make risky throw' as bad things. they are absolutely not, at least in my book

read-wise, you're absolutely on point, but that goes in the decision making aspect. you cant really make good decisions until you have at least some kind of read progression down.

thats why I dont think ej will be any good in general. lack of good decision making, no short passing game or even accuracy in short passing game. it wont be because he is afraid of risk, it will be because he doesnt have main aspects of what a qb is supposed to have, and unlike guys with cannon arms who just chuck it he doesnt have anything remotely to somehow offset it in any way

 

[Loose]

hell, I know if Im the coach and on 3rd and long on own half my qb improvises, dances around and then fires a crazy pass to a covered WR and WR makes the play for a first down..

Ill walk up to the qb and tell him to not ever do that bullshyt again. its ok to throw away the ball/check down/tuck and slide.
there is absolutely nothing wrong with punting the ball in that situation. beats the shyt out of committing a turnover

depends where i'm at on the field... if we are at the 45 on our way towards the endzone and the TO is down near the 3-25-20

 

[yseJ]

depends where i'm at on the field... if we are at the 45 on our way towards the endzone and the TO is down near the 3-25-20

I was talking about 3rd and long on your own half, like on your 35 or so

a lot of people will deem that as 'playing not to lose', and Im conservative by nature in playcalling but it is what is, facing a good d Id just punt, the probability of something bad happening is just so much higher.

 

[Piff Perkins]

I tend to root for black QBs to make it, and I like EJ...but dude looked bad against the Giants. It's just a preseason game, plenty of practices left before opening day...but I'm not sure he's a starting NFL QB. We'll know quite soon, given the weapons he has.

 

[K-Apps]

Here's good insight to how EJ is being coached up by a Bills forum I browse through:

i was very pleased to see this report regarding what our OC and Receivers coach are installing.

Synching up the feet paying off

This offseason offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett along with receivers coach Rob Moore committed to a step count based route tree for their receivers. The idea behind it was to put the route running paces of the receivers in lock step with the drop steps of the quarterback to create a more consistent efficiency to the passing game.
“We give them guidelines,” said Hackett. “We want to give them foundation of something they can believe in - understanding the depth you have to get to, how many steps it will take to get there and so forth. But at the same time everything has to adjust.”
So far the receivers like it believing more precise execution in the passing game will lead to more opportunities to gain yards after the catch.
“I think it’s working out,” said Robert Woods . “We’re seeing the change from last year. When we’re breaking out of our routes and the ball is already in the air there’s less time waiting on the ball and it gives us more time to make the defender miss.”

I think it explains a few things we saw Sunday.

1. the number of snaps taken from under center
2. the 'locking in' to a particular route
3. the consequences of the OL's poor techniques

Manuel's being coached up to release the ball as soon as he sets his plant foot. So, depending on his dropback, he was attempting to hit the related route.

It's why his mechanics seemed fine, but his instincts.. well, looked lousy. there was nothing instinctive about where he was going with the ball, and until he gets more experience in going through each set of progressions his dropbacks are timed too, he'll look like a blind robot at times.

There's a lot of work to do.. to get to the point where he and his receivers make the same reads on which corresponding patterns to run, and where Manuel's comfortable delivering the ball to the end of that route - without hesitation - but it's good to see there's a plan in place.. and that what i thought might be EJ having too much on his plate, was just he and the offence working the plan.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Practice today


Followed by:

 

[K-Apps]

mPractice today


Followed by:

*Countdown to random Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis start due either inevitable EJ injury or ineffectiveness*

 

[RichYung]

Practice today


Followed by:

fukk the throw ... Lol @ how son got shook on that route. Lmao....

 

[NYC Rebel]

fukk the throw ... Lol @ how son got shook on that route. Lmao....

That DB is frail as hell getting knocked down by one swipe. Looks like a camp body.

 

[godkiller]

That DB is frail as hell getting knocked down by one swipe. Looks like a camp body.

I went through that vine's other EJ throw videos and EJ body of work looks acceptable. He had some overthrows but also connected on efforts too. I don't know if such is the point of the QB exercise but it seems that once EJ finishes his drop under center, he rarely gets past his first read. At this point he either throws whichever way he glances first or becomes indecisive and doesn't know where to go with the ball.

 

[godkiller]

I'll ask my qb to try to make a second read before automatically hitting the checkdown or running after the first one is taken. Why have other receivers out there if you aren't asked to look for them? That's EJs issue...he makes one read...then checkdown. And on 3rd and long?

Why state that as good?

I agree with that

again, Im not arguing about ej in particular. Im arguing about 'timidness' and 'lack of willingness to go deep/make risky throw' as bad things. they are absolutely not, at least in my book

I tend to agree with @NYC Rebel.

I don't see 3rd and long opportunities are either completions or interceptions. Incompletions are a stronger possibility than interceptions and a QB should look for either a completion or incompletion on third. I'll add that a QB should go for it inasmuch as the throw isn't one that's very likely to be intercepted. That is, a QB shouldn't try to force throws into double coverage. If a QB fails to make a third down whilst trying to make a play for first and instead throws incomplete, that's the same as a checkdown. On the other hand, a guarded throw might still end up as a completion. This tradeoff seems more logical than playing it safe and resigning oneself to losing possession on every 3rd and down.

 

[yseJ]

I don't see 3rd and long opportunities are either completions or interceptions. I tend to agree with @NYC Rebel. I'll add that a QB should go for it inasmuch as the throw isn't one that's very likely to be intercepted. That is, a QB shouldn't try to force throws into double coverage. But otherwise he should try to make a play at getting the first down. Check downs are unacceptable.

so we have a different view of what qbs should do on 3rd and long

I dont see why checkdown is unacceptable, at all. I dont believe in local victories. getting a local victory of a first down where risk exceeds reward (on your own 30-35 yard line on 3rd and 15 against a defense) is just stupid to me. its not just a pick six that can happen, it can be a fumble and so on.

and because I dont believe in qb being the most important position, or some kinda alpha male or even a leader, Im ok with him checking it down or throwing the ball away in that situation. football is a team game. check the ball down, then punt on 4th. you wont be able to convert all those 3rd and longs anyway, not even close.
let your D do work and go for field position. this aint madden nikka, running around too much will have you at 4th and 50 to go like raiders with pryor

thats just my viewpoint tho