No offense but that's a huge copout. In the biggest eras ever tell me what savage or Piper and Vince and stone cold did that they can't do today?
What will it take to actually get a Heel real heat?
- Thread starter MenacingMonk
- Start date
Superkick Party
Atlus / Ryū ga Gotoku
Social Media is also a huge part of this and then there's people knowing wrestling is fake now too.
All I can say bro is different times
if the boys gotta pander so they can eat too then so be itNow that Kayfabe is pretty much "legitimately" broken... there aren't many ways to get heat. There aren't really "good guys and bad guys" that are universally cheered anymore (even though there are heels and faces)...there are more like 3 categories:
fan favorites (no matter the alignment heel or face)
people the fans don't like
people they don't care about (Jinder Mahal, Curt Hawkins, etc.)
Cena and Roman the adult male fans typically "don't like" and so they get reactions "like heels"
But KO vs. Jericho were both "fan favorites" despite their standing in the story as heel and face.
the best way to get heat now is to somehow get organically disliked by the fans (like RR for being pushed for some reason...even though the fans won't turn on Balor for getting a rocket push when he first debuted) and then to embrace that dislike.
TheAlbionist
Superstar
Same as it's always taken - proper booking. Spend the time to find out what makes the crowd mad and run with it. It's not necessarily about doing "bad" things anymore, it's often about "disrespecting the biz" or even straight up disrespecting the fans in the crowd's eyes now. It's not enough to do a run-in on a goodie-two-shoes and expect everyone to start booing.
Nobody really bought into the heel aspects of Corporate Seth because by-and-large everyone was lowkey happy he was getting a top-guy push at all... they would give a Corporate Roman backed by Steph and Trips ALL THE HEAT right now because everyone suspects he's been getting the Corporate Champ booking behind the scenes.
Basically they need to blur the reality lines again - WWE heat is at its peak where people can't tell if it's a shoot or not. Mr McMahon used real world heat (Montreal) to kick off YEARS of nuclear kayfabe heat with Stone Cold. Sgt Slaughter played traitor during an actual fukking war. Million Dollar Man was making real, ticket-buying kids cry on TV.
The last truly great piece of heeling was Sasha stealing Izzy's hairband. If you want the hate, you've got to VIOLATE.
Nobody really bought into the heel aspects of Corporate Seth because by-and-large everyone was lowkey happy he was getting a top-guy push at all... they would give a Corporate Roman backed by Steph and Trips ALL THE HEAT right now because everyone suspects he's been getting the Corporate Champ booking behind the scenes.
Basically they need to blur the reality lines again - WWE heat is at its peak where people can't tell if it's a shoot or not. Mr McMahon used real world heat (Montreal) to kick off YEARS of nuclear kayfabe heat with Stone Cold. Sgt Slaughter played traitor during an actual fukking war. Million Dollar Man was making real, ticket-buying kids cry on TV.
The last truly great piece of heeling was Sasha stealing Izzy's hairband. If you want the hate, you've got to VIOLATE.
I agree, but it's true. The money from corporate sponsors will always win out over wrestling booking. Pro wrestling seriously died when the WWE became a publicly traded company.
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
Drink wolf cola
I have to disagree with this sentiment. Most people aren't booing because they want him to lose, but because he's in a spot they want other people to be. The crowd didn't fully turn on him until the 2015 royal rumble where the whole idea behind the booking of the match is make literally everybody who is over look weak while keeping them far away from Roman in hopes of the crowd not turning on him. Then they put the three most over faces in bryan and ziggler and Ambrose in the opening match at wrestlemania after putting Roman in the position a month earlier of choosing to defend his title match with Brock against bryan (this is stupid because he looks like a chump or a coward if he doesn't and an idiot if he does agree to the match). They all went on almost 4 hours before he did again seemingly to keep them off the fans mind by the time he got out there. He never did anything heelish to turn the crowd against him, and that's the problem with this premise. Same as when cena went to raw in 2005, the crowd turned on him because they just started booking him in ways that doesn't fit him while pushing the more over guys to the side (moving Christian to smackdown to lose in the midcard until he left for tna while removing all his merch from the shop zone even though it was their best selling merch as of June 2005).
When the rock turned heel in 1998, he did so by aligning with Vince and the corporation. When triple h turned heel in 1999, he did it by turning on dx, in 2002 when he was revealed as the guy who attacked hbk, and when he cost bryan he title at summerslam in 2013. When Bret turned heel in 1997, he did it with his attack on Steve Austin after he already won their submission match. When punk turned in 2009, he did so by cashing in on Jeff hardy and being a preachy self righteous jackass about being straight edge while Jeff had drug problems. These are all reasons to boo someone that will make people want to see someone lose. I just don't see how force feeding someone to the crowd as a face and then having him go over everyone the crowd actually does want to watch will generate "I want to see you lose" heat when it has never worked before.
how can we really tell what their long term plans for Finn were and whether it was a rocket push? He won 2 singles matches in a month and then had to vacate the title.
because he won the brand new title on the flagship program within a few weeks of him being called up...beating two men much bigger than him (Rusev and Reigns I believe) in one night to get into the match.
Finn Balor is the DEFINITION of a Rocket Push.
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
Drink wolf cola
Bingo. Don't pander to the kids. Be mean to them. Everyone boos a guy who picks on kids. Who likes a guy like that? It's
levels of jackassery to pick on kids. One of my favorite heel moments ever was the million dollar man paying that kid $500 to dribble a kickball because he claimed that he must've been poor because of how his parents dressed him and then kicking the ball away at the last dribble so he didn't get the money. Nobody is gonna cheer that guy in real time. The premise behind corporate Seth and Roman is a great point too. Presenting the guy who earned his stripes on the independent circuit as the hand picked favorite of the company while presenting their home grown hand picked guy as the guy the fans want but management wants to stick it to is just illogical. If cena went corporate sellout heel in 2011 vs punk, the heat for that match would've been even more insane than it was with cena trying to be all good and neutral in this feud while trying to be high and mighty. Imagine the reaction at the 2015 survivor series if steph and hunter cost Ambrose the title against Roman in the main event instead of having Roman go over Ambrose quick and sheamus cashing in so they can feud for a month while we get tater tots jokes. Think about how great rock turning heel in 1998 so he could feud with Austin as the top heel in 1999 was. Since it was written well and logically, both benefitted greatly and they were able to do that match both in 2001 and 2003 again.
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
Drink wolf cola
Roman had gotten popped for a wellness violation and Rusev was in the middle of a 5-6 month run as United States champion. Sadly they clearly showed in his feuds with Roman and cena that he was only there to put the two of them over. I mean he wasn't even on the card last Sunday at all. Pretty sure Finn didn't face rusev unless it happened to be in that fatal four way anyway.
Breh Obama
First Breh President. Coli Prophet.
KO is the closest thing WWE has to being a true a$$hole vindictive no mercy heel
I always thought WWE wasn't so PC and corporate now, a Louis Farrakhan/Malcolm X public speaker gimmick where a black wrestler talking all the social inequality African Americans have suffered for decades especially recently such as police brutality. Hell, even talk about all the racist gimmicks WWE and pro wrestling has had. Imagine the heat that could generate in the south and midwest 
You have to have faces that are cool. Most WWE faces are corny, one dimensional, and not people you can relate to. The heels are the ones that have character layers and are actually interesting.
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
Drink wolf cola
Muhammad Hassan was that gimmick basically. Then they butchered itI always thought WWE wasn't so PC and corporate now, a Louis Farrakhan/Malcolm X public speaker gimmick where a black wrestler talking all the social inequality African Americans have suffered for decades especially recently such as police brutality. Hell, even talk about all the racist gimmicks WWE and pro wrestling has had. Imagine the heat that could generate in the south and midwest
