What will it take to actually get a Heel real heat?

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

They butchered it because of UPN stepping in and wanting to kill it off. That's what I was saying about the corporate aspect of wrestling won't warrant a true, scumbag heel.

The moment they got away from him airing his grievances over the prejudice he faces and started acting like a typical foreign heel, he was cooked. Then they guys in ski masks the day of the London attacks happened . Taking the company public was absolutely devastating from a creative standpoint.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Yeah because of his terrible ring work and promos.Not because he's some big nasty heel.

Eva Marie type heat basically

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Yeah because of his terrible ring work and promos.Not because he's some big nasty heel.

If people want to see him lose, and will pop for a babyface or even another heel beating him...and will even pay to do it....what does that make him

What has he done in MONTHS that is even CLOSE to the standard babyface fare?

Seriously, how is he a babyface?

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Eva Marie type heat basically

But its definitely not. I saw it leading up to and during the strowman feud. Fans dont like him, and pop for anyone facing him on some honky tonk man shyt.

Nobody in wwe is as good at getting an opponent over as Roman reigns right now, other than Chris jericho. He is the #1 heel and he doesnt even need to do over te top heel shyt like you guys are asking.


Tell me what happens if the main event of raw next week is Roman Reigns vs Aiden English. Guess who is over as fukk that night, and going forward?

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

But its definitely not. I saw it leading up to and during the strowman feud. Fans dont like him, and pop for anyone facing him on some honky tonk man shyt.

Nobody in wwe is as good at getting an opponent over as Roman reigns right now, other than Chris jericho. He is the #1 heel and he doesnt even need to do over te top heel shyt like you guys are asking.


Tell me what happens if the main event of raw next week is Roman Reigns vs Aiden English. Guess who is over as fukk that night, and going forward?

If people want to see him lose, and will pop for a babyface or even another heel beating him...and will even pay to do it....what does that make him

What has he done in MONTHS that is even CLOSE to the standard babyface fare?

Seriously, how is he a babyface?

We can say the same for cena too honestly. Whether it's ignoring the getting fired stipulation in the nexus angle, the shyt with zack Ryder, the "you do this for the money and I'm the only one who really loves it here" preaching, the "you're just a guy from Georgia" stuff with AJ, nothing about their faces is really redeemable. The other problem is that booking is always done to make their opponent seems worthless and irrelevant. Their opponents don't get protected at all so after that first loss it deflates a crowd horrendously.


Honky tonk man got booed because he himself was irritating and good at working a crowd. Roman is getting booed because we don't want him at the top of the card, we don't want this guy telling awful jokes and trying to act just like cena, meanwhile the people we do want there are treated as afterthoughts. If he worked his way up the card gradually and they didn't go so far out of their way to make everyone around him look bad while paul Heyman talks about how he's better than the rock or Steve Austin or hulk hogan, the crowd might have gotten behind him. It's the same problem cena had. That type of booking doesn't do much for getting other guys over since the moment someone starts to get over, they get fed to Roman or cena. He may get booed like crazy, but to be a heel, you have to be booked like one and act like one and be presented like one. Otherwise it's just cena 2.0, and who else was elevated from him being booked that way?

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Honky tonk man got booed because he himself was irritating and good at working a crowd. Roman is getting booed because we don't want him at the top of the card, we don't want this guy telling awful jokes and trying to act just like cena, meanwhile the people we do want there are treated as afterthoughts. If he worked his way up the card gradually and they didn't go so far out of their way to make everyone around him look bad while paul Heyman talks about how he's better than the rock or Steve Austin or hulk hogan, the crowd might have gotten behind him. It's the same problem cena had. That type of booking doesn't do much for getting other guys over since the moment someone starts to get over, they get fed to Roman or cena. He may get booed like crazy, but to be a heel, you have to be booked like one and act like one and be presented like one. Otherwise it's just cena 2.0, and who else was elevated from him being booked that way?

But they actually did. People ignore it but they (cena and roman) were both us champ on the way up and were at the bottom of mania cards as well.

Reigns isnt irritating to todays fans?

People play this mental gymnastics thing with reigns but he is hated as fukk and not in a silence JJ heat way, he is hated...and like i said tell me what happens if the main event of raw monday is reigns vs KARL ANDERSON. Gusss what, karl anderson is the biggest babyface in the company for the night. Over as fukk.

He is the perfect heel for today.

 

[JerseyBoy23]

To actually get heel heat WWE you pretty have to have no indie credibility. People hype Finn, Nakamura, AJ so much that once they come to the main roster and are spectral, it's hard to boo them.

Also I've seen people say knowing wrestling is fake is the reason for a lack of heat. With that point though, people have always known or suspected wrestling was fake for the last century so that shouldn't be a problem. The real difference is heels don't act like heels off screen.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

But they actually did. People ignore it but they (cena and roman) were both us champ on the way up and were at the bottom of mania cards as well.

Reigns isnt irritating to todays fans?

People play this mental gymnastics thing with reigns but he is hated as fukk and not in a silence JJ heat way, he is hated...and like i said tell me what happens if the main event of raw monday is reigns vs KARL ANDERSON. Gusss what, karl anderson is the biggest babyface in the company for the night. Over as fukk.

He is the perfect heel for today.

I'm referring to Roman post shield split. Roman had his United States title run after headlining two straight wrestlemania events and being a 3 time heavyweight champion, and they did nothing to develop him as a character in that time though. It was just him doing this same exact thing somewhere else on the card for a very short while. A character this flat and one dimensional has no business being high on the card in 2017. They sent him straight to the top of the card as soon as Rollins broke up the shield. In his undercard feud for the United States title, he randomly interrupted rusev and Lana, acted like a dikk, and embarrassed them while being presented as the face in the feud. Then after losing the title, rusev got thrown in the bushes. He gets booed, not for being an annoying heel, but for being the embodiment of :flabbyvince: deciding to force what he wants on the crowd regardless of if they want it, or if there's something else they want. It's the same reason cena has been getting booed out of the building since late 2005. To be a great heel, you almost always need a great manager or to be a great talker yourself too. Roman does not fit either of those criteria. I'd like to be wrong on this front, but I expect them to keep presenting him as a face and I expect their long term plan is Roman wins the royal rumble again and goes over Brock next year to get his conquering hero becomes the champion moment for the third time while Vince keeps trying to force his agenda.

 

[JerseyBoy23]

Also I think one of the main reasons WWE doesn't really care about the lack of heel heat is because they get the reactions they want at live events.

I've been to a house shows at MSG main evented by Cena and Reigns, both of them got the biggest pop of the night. What does that tell WWE? That the people paying for events are cheering and booing who they want them to.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

I'm referring to Roman post shield split. Roman had his United States title run after headlining two straight wrestlemania events and being a 3 time heavyweight champion, and they did nothing to develop him as a character in that time though. It was just him doing this same exact thing somewhere else on the card for a very short while. A character this flat and one dimensional has no business being high on the card in 2017. They sent him straight to the top of the card as soon as Rollins broke up the shield. In his undercard feud for the United States title, he randomly interrupted rusev and Lana, acted like a dikk, and embarrassed them while being presented as the face in the feud. Then after losing the title, rusev got thrown in the bushes. He gets booed, not for being an annoying heel, but for being the embodiment of :flabbyvince: deciding to force what he wants on the crowd regardless of if they want it, or if there's something else they want. It's the same reason cena has been getting booed out of the building since late 2005. To be a great heel, you almost always need a great manager or to be a great talker yourself too. Roman does not fit either of those criteria. I'd like to be wrong on this front, but I expect them to keep presenting him as a face and I expect their long term plan is Roman wins the royal rumble again and goes over Brock next year to get his conquering hero becomes the champion moment for the third time while Vince keeps trying to force his agenda.

But rollins has been pushed way harder than even roman reigns....

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

But rollins has been pushed way harder than even roman reigns....

Just from June 2014 until his knee injury he had some 25 total matches against cena on tv in one on one, tag team, and triple threat matches and lose 17 or 18 of them. Then there's his losses to J&J, his being terrified of corporate Kane, all his losses to Finn and KO. He sure as hell hasn't been protected at the expense of the rest of the roster.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Just from June 2014 until his knee injury he had some 25 total matches against cena on tv in one on one, tag team, and triple threat matches and lose 17 or 18 of them. Then there's his losses to J&J, his being terrified of corporate Kane, all his losses to Finn and KO. He sure as hell hasn't been protected at the expense of the rest of the roster.

He won beat reigns and brock lesnar, won the belt, at mania, got injured, came back, beat HHH at mania...so..

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

He won beat reigns and brock lesnar, won the belt, at mania, got injured, came back, beat HHH at mania...so..

He snuck in and stole the title, got clobbered by Brock and only kept it because taker showed up and cost Brock the match though. I lost count of how many times he lost on tv and looked weak in title defenses though. Triple h loses a lot at mania too. He's got more losses there than anyone ever. What is Rollins position on the card currently? Is he being presented as the top face? Did he ever look like a credible champion with the way he was booked as champ? What are the plans for him going forward? It feels like he's in limbo.

 

[DaHNIC82]

Heels have always sold merch. When the entire NWO was nothing but a supergroup of heels they sold a ton of merch

Plus Stone Cold

 

[Goodbye World]

Randy is a heel 24/7 fans make threads on why he is a prick outside the ring.

isn't Orton a face?