Why is hockey the only sport with a universally accepted GOAT?

MikelArteta

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What makes you say that? If they are both healthy and playing at their absolute peak, it's probably even with MAYBE a slight edge to Mario. He's probably the most TALENTED player of all time and he ate like shyt, smoked a pack a day, was often injured and still absolutely dominated. He said it was the 87 Canada Team where he played with Wayne that he began taking his career more seriously with training but the man kept smoking. With all that in mind:

Lemieux has a better career adjusted points per game

Lemieux has the best single season adjusted points per game

Lemieux scored 80+ goals against butterfly goalies, Gretzky only hit 70 range (only lol)

Gretzky never scored more than 50 goals after the age of 29 - Lemieux scored 35 goals in 43 games after not playing for 4 years (at the age of 35)

Lemieux averaged 0.8 goals a season in three different DECADES - Wayne only did this over a span of 6 years

Lemieux was absolutely more talented and skilled than Gretzky, he just was never as healthy and didn't play with the same longevity. Not to mention he got absolutely destroyed playing in the era of pulling/slashing/holding (with no calls) and was never protected the way Gretzky was. On a nightly basis, he took an absolute beating and STILL dominated. It is absolutely much closer than people think and anyone who says Mario over Gretzky is not insane, there is an argument to be made.


gretzky the better playmaker, id even say ovechkin is a better goal scorer than gretzky and just below the gawd mike bossy in terms of goal scoring
 

MikelArteta

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as well there was nothing better than being on gretzky wing

jari kurri would have been a average scrub without gretzky, same with glen anderson both guys are in the hof
 

Ohene

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He was just THAT good breh :manny:

Baseball could be headed towards something like that right now though. There is pretty much no debate Mike Trout is the best in the game, and he's on pace for the best WAR in history this season. If he keeps this up for like 10-12 more years, and gets some rings and never tests positive for PEDs he might become baseballs undisputed GOAT
just looked at trouts stats. what am i missing...they look pretty normal batting wise
 

MikelArteta

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The thing many people dont realize is gretzky best season that will never ever ever be touched ever again

92 goals
120 assists

He was only 20 Years old

:dahell:

gretzky reached 1,000 points at age 22 :mjlol:

the average great player of today it might take them 13-14 years to reach that, gretzky did in 5 years

gretzky reached 500 goals at age 24

500 goals is like 500 home runs

imagine a baseball player reaching 500 home runs at age 24
 

Robbo

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other sports also have more positions that affect the conversation. In Hockey, there are wings, centers and defenseman as far as skaters, but its really coming down to forwards and defenseman, and its doubtful any defenseman would get consideration for greatest player... points is a huge part of that argument.

In football, there are too many positions.. Many consider Jerry Rice the best player of all time, but there are others who will pick a QB. Some will even pick a defensive player.

In basketball, Jordan is there, but then you have dominant centers like Kareem and Wilt. Then there's Lebron, Kobe..etc.. all the different positions affect how players are perceived in their overall ranking.
 

Regular_P

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What makes you say that? If they are both healthy and playing at their absolute peak, it's probably even with MAYBE a slight edge to Mario. He's probably the most TALENTED player of all time and he ate like shyt, smoked a pack a day, was often injured and still absolutely dominated. He said it was the 87 Canada Team where he played with Wayne that he began taking his career more seriously with training but the man kept smoking. With all that in mind:

Lemieux has a better career adjusted points per game

Lemieux has the best single season adjusted points per game

Lemieux scored 80+ goals against butterfly goalies, Gretzky only hit 70 range (only lol)

Gretzky never scored more than 50 goals after the age of 29 - Lemieux scored 35 goals in 43 games after not playing for 4 years (at the age of 35)

Lemieux averaged 0.8 goals a season in three different DECADES - Wayne only did this over a span of 6 years

Lemieux was absolutely more talented and skilled than Gretzky, he just was never as healthy and didn't play with the same longevity. Not to mention he got absolutely destroyed playing in the era of pulling/slashing/holding (with no calls) and was never protected the way Gretzky was. On a nightly basis, he took an absolute beating and STILL dominated. It is absolutely much closer than people think and anyone who says Mario over Gretzky is not insane, there is an argument to be made.
I just found out he accounted for 57% of Pittsburgh's goals in the 1988-89 season, which is still a record...and Gretzky stole his MVP with 31 fewer points.
 

Regular_P

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Lemieux's '92-93 season:

Looking back on a career highlighted by his notching of one of the most important markers in Canada’s rich hockey history, two Stanley Cup championships and countless awards, many may find it difficult to pinpoint Mario Lemieux’s crowning achievement on the ice. But, if one is searching for Super Mario’s most remarkable performance, he or she need not look any further than Lemieux’s 1992-’93 campaign.

The season couldn’t have started more perfectly. Coming off back-to-back Cup wins, the Pens began the year with what was probably the greatest hockey team Pittsburgh ever assembled. With names like Lemieux, Kevin Stevens, Ron Francis, Jaromir Jagr, Rick Tocchet, Larry Murphy and Tom Barrasso (and, oh yeah, the legendary Scotty Bowman behind the bench) leading the way, the Penguins resembled a freight train charging toward a third straight Stanley Cup parade.

Early Season Dominance Turned Meaningless
The Penguins exploded out of the gate in their quest for a three-peat, kicking off the year with an impressive 8-0-2 run. The squad never lost more than two contests in a row en route to amassing a league-best 28-10-4 record halfway through the campaign.

For his part, Mario proved nearly unstoppable as his scoring onslaught appeared destined to threaten Wayne Gretzky’s single-season record of 215 points. “Le Magnifique” never went more than a single game without recording a goal or an assist, registering one sevenpoint, three five-point, five four-point and 11 three-point contests along the way. In just 40 games, Lemieux racked up an astounding 39 goals, 65 assists and 104 points.

As the calendar turned to 1993, Mario and the Penguins’ offensive juggernaut appeared unstoppable. The club continued to put up video game-like numbers as it distanced itself from the rest of the league. That is, until the unthinkable happened.

In early January, Lemieux was diagnosed with Hodgkin’s disease, a cancer of the lymphatic system. And, while doctors indicated the illness shouldn’t prove life threatening, the seriousness of the situation immediately put things in perspective. With hockey placed squarely on the back burner, Super Mario underwent over a month of radiation treatments, a grueling ordeal that finally ended on March 2, 1993.

An Epic Return
Upon completing his final radiation treatment, Lemieux boarded a plane for Philadelphia, meeting his teammates for a contest against the Flyers that night. So emotional was the return that Lemieux received an unheard of standing ovation from the archrival Philadelphia faithful en route to recording a goal and an assist in his first game back.



“At that point, all you want to do is prove to yourself that you’re fine, that the cancer is behind you. That’s why I came back [so quickly]. Maybe it was foolish, but that’s what I felt I had to do.” – Lemieux, on his dramatic comeback

And, while the Penguins lost that night in Philadelphia (and in their next contest against the Rangers), Lemieux’s return eventually catapulted the Penguins to their first and only Presidents’ Trophy. Because, after the team managed to stay afloat by recording an 11-10-2 record without Mario, Pittsburgh ultimately enjoyed a 17-game winning streak on the way to finishing the season without a loss in their final 18 games.

Meanwhile, during Lemieux’s absence, Pat Lafontaine surged ahead of the Pittsburgh superstar in the points race, building himself a 12 point cushion in a chase for the Art Ross Trophy. In the campaign’s final 20 games, though, Super Mario didn’t just catch Lafontaine; no, he made a mockery of the competition. Recording 30 goals, 26 assists and 56 points upon his return, the game’s most dominant player won the Art Ross Trophy by a 12 point margin of his own.

“The run he went on was beyond belief. He was significantly behind Pat LaFontaine in the scoring race. He missed six weeks. He won the scoring title and it was something like [56] points in [20] games. It was a ridiculous pace. It would have been ridiculous even if he hadn’t gone through any physical maladies. To do that in this context was amazing.” – Tom McMillan, former Penguins’ beat writer


To put it all in perspective, Lemieux put up a monster 2.6 points per game in the 1992-’93 season prior to temporarily stepping away from the game. When he came back for the year’s final 20 contests, he registered 2.8 points per game after beating cancer. Had Mario remained healthy all year, his projected 97 goals and 224 points would have both easily eclipsed Gretzky’s single-season records.

And, while the Penguins ultimately came up short in their goal of bringing home a third consecutive Stanley Cup, nothing can take away from the incredible season Mario Lemieux put together during that trying season. In the end, he took home the Art Ross, Hart, Lester B. Pearson and Masterson Trophies. And, given everything Lemieux went through that year, the staggering numbers he compiled surely top the list of his seemingly endless career achievements.

Mario Lemieux's 1992-'93 Season

I remember what a big deal this was at the time.
 
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Just talk to an old ass white hockey fan. They'll shyt on Gretzky all day.
Facts.

I worked with two white dudes who played hockey. One was born in the 50s and was still playing in an open league. He had howe and orr as the goats. Didn't care for gretzky.

The other white dude was born in the 80s and played in college. He shytted on gretzky too and had mario as the goat.

I don't watch hockey so I never saw a single minute of gretzky but based on the media and propaganda and the pro stars cartoon, I thought gretzky was the goat hockey player. But apparently, it's not as shut and close as the coli would have you believe.
 

camer999

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I mean that could go for bball too tbh, MJ's greatness created the phrase "the MJ of (insert profession/sport here)"
The thing is there are small sects that consider magic/Kareem/even kobe (:mjlol:) the GOAT. And LBJ has a growing GOAT presence whether you guys acknowledge is up to you. With Gretzky it feels not even debateable. Though I guess you could argue Mario is more talented.
 
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