Why is pop/catchy music frowned upon in hip-hop/R&B?

[mobbinfms]

I'm not a Missy stan but can you front on her production?

She had some nice beats. No question. She was primarily what made her records pop.
I'm no huge Tim fan though

 

[2manyFCKNrappers]

Hip hop is a culture, rap is the music of said culture. Not the same. Just as much as hardcore is the music of punk culture. It's not always hand in hand. Not all the music reflects the progressive forward thinking nature of the root of culture. That's how every single defiant subculture of music is. What makes hip hop different? You're being idealistic based upon the box you've put hip hop into and not realistic.

Hip Hop is a totally different animal than any other genre/culture based on what it was founded on. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about so there's no need to get into it here.

 

[Insensitive]

False.

Its a pop market that migrates twords hip hop and rnb.

Hip hop never was and will be categorized as popular music.

And you just said it:most pop music is watered down trash.

All of these genres are "popular music", it's not Jazz or Classical.
Hip-Hop, R&B, Pop, Rock etc. is apart of the "Pop" realm.
Now the genre itself "Pop" has a distinct sound but also borrows heavily from
what's the hottest at the time hence "Pop" in 2016 blurring the lines between Hip-Hop and R&B.

For example, The Weeknd released his album Beauty Behind the Madness and people say he fell off. However, BBTM was his catchiest album and the one album that is very easy to digest. It's fun.

In hip-hop, Drake dropped Views and it has fun records, but people say that it's bad because Drake went pop. J.Cole dropped "Work Out" and people claimed that he sold out, but "Work Out" is one of his best songs to me.

Is music automatically worse if it's catchy? Isn't that the point of music?

That can't be the case, some of THE MOST vaunted and respected Hip-Hop artists dropped straight
smash hits.
Big Pun ?
Jay-Z ?
Nas ?
Eminem ?
Lauryn Hill ?
All of these guys/gals have had monstrous hits and sold millions of records the problem's start when the music just
becomes a cliche, vapid bullshyt to sell to the masses.

When you can see the difference between Avril Lavigne and Joan Jett, you'll understand the bad taste
blatant pandering and posing can leave in a genuine fans mouth.

 

[Insensitive]

*edit*

 

[FeloniousMonk]

All of these genres are "popular music", it's not Jazz or Classical.
Hip-Hop, R&B, Pop, Rock etc. is apart of the "Pop" realm.
Now the genre itself "Pop" has a distinct sound but also borrows heavily from
what's the hottest at the time hence "Pop" in 2016 blurring the lines between Hip-Hop and R&B.

Hip hop is now "pop" only because its marketed to that crowd.

The music its self, that is hip hop, gained universal appeal organically, and eventually crossed over into popular music.

RnB was a term used to classify af am pop music, that was called race music. And rock has always been popular.

Yes-Hip Hop is considered a form of pop music today. Yet at the core its , the music was never designed to be "pop"

But

Rap became so popular, that it would chart pop, based on that alone.

Rap was even busting out on the R&B charts. This new form of music was all over the place. The major labels couldn't comprehend it.

Why do you think artists and one time, would sway so heavy against our musicing conforming to a cookie cutter platform, which is pop music?

Ice cube is not for the pop charts..

Rap is not pop if you call it that then stop..

Etc..

Since the "evolution" of rap music in commercial format, with the overall impact, the basis is now to make money, i.e maximize profits. and chart in as many formats as possible.

 

[mobbinfms]

Some background info on them and their style



Backstreet Boys on Apple Music

everything in their style pints back to R&Bwhat "pop" style of music had these vocal stylings before R&B?




this is like some watered down white version of 90's R&B/new jack swing

Why didn't you bold the part where it says teen pop enjoyed a commercial explosion?
Face it breh, pop is a genre. I think we are just debating semantics at this point

 

[Insensitive]

Hip hop is now "pop" only because its marketed to that crowd.

The music its self, that is hip hop, gained universal appeal organically, and eventually crossed over into popular music.

RnB was a term used to classify af am pop music, that was called race music. And rock has always been popular.

Yes-Hip Hop is considered a form of pop music today. Yet at the core its , the music was never designed to be "pop"

But

Rap became so popular, that it would chart pop, based on that alone.

Rap was even busting out on the R&B charts. This new form of music was all over the place. The major labels couldn't comprehend it.

Why do you think artists and one time, would sway so heavy against our musicing conforming to a cookie cutter platform, which is pop music?

Ice cube is not for the pop charts..

Rap is not pop if you call it that then stop..

Etc..

Since the "evolution" of rap music in commercial format, with the overall impact, the basis is now to make money, i.e maximize profits. and chart in as many formats as possible.

Rock is "Pop", it's still massively popular.
Hip-Hop/Rap is Pop because it's music that is Popular.
Hip-Hop is "Pop" and has been since it left the bronx and it's artists moved millions of records.
EDM is "Pop", R&B is "Pop" etc. If millions of people tune in to hear artists from the genre
and it still can turn a massive profit, then there's very little chance it isn't "Pop Music".

However Hip-Hop/Rap is not Pop music in the musical sense, when we discuss it's
musical qualities, it's identity becomes distinct. Metal, Hip-Hop/Rap, Punk Rock, Dub-Step
etc.these are all distinct sounds and approaches to music that differentiate themselves and warrant
genre names but their popularity is what gets them classified as "Pop" vs. more "Serious" forms of music.

 

[tremonthustler1]

Hip hop is now "pop" only because its marketed to that crowd.

The music its self, that is hip hop, gained universal appeal organically, and eventually crossed over into popular music.

RnB was a term used to classify af am pop music, that was called race music. And rock has always been popular.

Yes-Hip Hop is considered a form of pop music today. Yet at the core its , the music was never designed to be "pop"

But

Rap became so popular, that it would chart pop, based on that alone.

Rap was even busting out on the R&B charts. This new form of music was all over the place. The major labels couldn't comprehend it.

Why do you think artists and one time, would sway so heavy against our musicing conforming to a cookie cutter platform, which is pop music?

Ice cube is not for the pop charts..

Rap is not pop if you call it that then stop..

Etc..

Since the "evolution" of rap music in commercial format, with the overall impact, the basis is now to make money, i.e maximize profits. and chart in as many formats as possible.

Because back in the day, rappers were afraid of what would happen if the genre escaped their grips as if they knew the answers and had a long term direction for the music and culture, so any change was feared. Rappers promoting products was frowned on. Rappers doing commercials was frowned on. Rap 25 years ago was very much like punk where any success that wasn't done organically wasn't accepted. (in 2016, nothing would be considered organic because everyone thinks there's an industry plant everywhere). Country was like that too (a lot of artists sold, but they were still country at the root of it all. Shania Twain sold 30 million records and she didn't look like a country artist which scared the living shyt out of everyone-- basically a precursor to Taylor Swift)

 

[Keep_It_Hip_Hop_Fam]

Views wasn't bad because it was pop; it was just a bad project altogether.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

However Hip-Hop/Rap is not Pop music in the musical sense, when we discuss it's
musical qualities, it's identity becomes distinct.

This should be explained to OP on why pop/catchy music is frowned upon in hip hop/r&b.

Not so much r&b tho..

 

[FeloniousMonk]

Because back in the day, rappers were afraid of what would happen if the genre escaped their grips as if they knew the answers and had a long term direction for the music and culture, so any change was feared. Rappers promoting products was frowned on. Rappers doing commercials was frowned on. Rap 25 years ago was very much like punk where any success that wasn't done organically wasn't accepted. (in 2016, nothing would be considered organic because everyone thinks there's an industry plant everywhere). Country was like that too (a lot of artists sold, but they were still country at the root of it all. Shania Twain sold 30 million records and she didn't look like a country artist which scared the living shyt out of everyone-- basically a precursor to Taylor Swift)

Not just this, yet rappers didn't want to get pigeonholed for endorsing the commercial establishment who didnt give a fukk bout rap in the 1st place and look like sell outs.

Hammer could be considered one of the 1st major crossover rappers to go commercial AND be considered a sellout in terms of the integrity of hip hop.

 

[Insensitive]

Because back in the day, rappers were afraid of what would happen if the genre escaped their grips as if they knew the answers and had a long term direction for the music and culture, so any change was feared. Rappers promoting products was frowned on. Rappers doing commercials was frowned on. Rap 25 years ago was very much like punk where any success that wasn't done organically wasn't accepted. (in 2016, nothing would be considered organic because everyone thinks there's an industry plant everywhere). Country was like that too (a lot of artists sold, but they were still country at the root of it all. Shania Twain sold 30 million records and she didn't look like a country artist which scared the living shyt out of everyone-- basically a precursor to Taylor Swift)

And let's be real, once the precedent was set they could start crafting Hip-Hop artists in a lab and
selling those cats instead of people who were genuinely into the music and culture.
It's the main reason people are deftly afraid of losing their grip on the music and it's perception because when
you can control how it's marketed and what are the norms in that genre then you effectively control
who can and does make money.

Look what happened when Hip-Hop was completely and utterly at the mercy of much larger companies with
more resources than any indie label could provide. Last decade is filled with all sorts of bullshyt that no one
remembers because of that.

It's funny you mention country because country is suffering from just that, in the pursuit of dollars country artists
are adopting more and more from what's popular and changing what's accepted as "Country".

It's how you get a guy singing about Chevy Trucks and Red Cups over beat breaks and a Dj Scratching.
Musical characteristics directly introduced by Hip-Hop music.

 

[Wacky D]

how does this @Not The Ruler O9 clown get to neg me so much?

how many people do you neg in a day dude?

I like the lil messages he leaves tho. funny.

 

[tremonthustler1]

And let's be real, once the precedent was set they could start crafting Hip-Hop artists in a lab and
selling those cats instead of people who were genuinely into the music and culture.
It's the main reason people are deftly afraid of losing their grip on the music and it's perception because when
you can control how it's marketed and what are the norms in that genre then you effectively control
who can and does make money.

Look what happened when Hip-Hop was completely and utterly at the mercy of much larger companies with
more resources than any indie label could provide. Last decade is filled with all sorts of bullshyt that no one
remembers because of that.

It's funny you mention country because country is suffering from just that, in the pursuit of dollars country artists
are adopting more and more from what's popular and changing what's accepted as "Country".

It's how you get a guy singing about Chevy Trucks and Red Cups over beat breaks and a Dj Scratching.
Musical characteristics directly introduced by Hip-Hop music.

While sure, corporations dilute shyt, we know, was the alternative to not grow and expand? Country was in a good place in that their fans supported with their money and you could be Garth Brooks and Tim McGraw and sell millions yet still be what you intended to be. Rap was always gonna be at a disadvantage because in sheer numbers alone, you can't put artists on that kind of pedestal. Genres don't like losing their rigidity even if it comes at the expense of potential success. Punk and even metal to an extent live by that but ultimately their measure of success is much lower than what we consider.

If rap was as rigid as it used to be, it woulda cheated itself out of growth which ultimately benefited the genre.

 

[tremonthustler1]

Not just this, yet rappers didn't want to get pigeonholed for endorsing the commercial establishment who didnt give a fukk bout rap in the 1st place and look like sell outs.

Hammer could be considered one of the 1st major crossover rappers to go commercial AND be considered a sellout in terms of the integrity of hip hop.

I remember something Cheo Coker said about Hammer where he said "once white people aren't afraid of you, black people feel like you're not doing your job" which is why he feels Hammer lost a lot of respect. Rap didn't care about being loved. They wanted to be feared and respected. A lot has changed.