Cavs is retarded to trade Love...

[FTBS]

Again, you shifted the argument. I was addressing your point about Love's offense, specifically his role on that end, which is why I brought up the difference between GS/CLE respective offenses. You then tried to bring up an irrelevant point about defense, because you had no counter for what I posted.

The only thing irrelevant is how long Love had the ball when his team put up a 115 offensive rating and couldn't stop an AAU team. Still waiting on you to explain how Love getting the ball more against bad matchups improves that defense.

 

[Malta]

Except it's not "dead on" at all. Y'all don't seem to understand the difference in sacrificing TOP/production next to two other stars, and simply being a spot-up 3-pt shooter (which Love more or less is). If the Cavs had a proper system in place, Love would've had more opportunities to generate offense in the Finals, and therefore would've made the Cavs offense harder to defend and allow LeBron to balance out his energy on both ends evenly.

Eh, Kevin Love struggled to get post position against Klay Thompson, he's not the same guy he was in 2013-2014. The Cavs offensive system is simple, but it was having results and I'm not really sure how many different ways they could have used him. He could have had more elbow catches, but he's not really a threat to post up from there anymore with all the weight he's lost in the last 3 years and he's definitely not beating any Warriors with the dribble from there. If this were the fat version of Love from 2013-2014 the Cavs could post him up a lot more, and there's really no way Klay could have stopped him, but that Love was also terrible defensively so it's a trade off.

This guy is long gone -

 

[Suleiman Bey]

Eh, Kevin Love struggled to get post position against Klay Thompson, he's not the same guy he was in 2013-2014. The Cavs offensive system is simple, but it was having results and I'm not really sure how many different ways they could have used him. He could have had more elbow catches, but he's not really a threat to post up from there anymore with all the weight he's lost in the last 3 years and he's definitely not beating any Warriors with the dribble from there. If this were the fat version of Love from 2013-2014 the Cavs could post him up a lot more, and there's really no way Klay could have stopped him, but that Love was also terrible defensively so it's a trade off.

This guy is long gone -

He's not teh same guy because he had to change to appease the LeBallhog. Everybody has to change their game to suit a guy who supposedly makes the game easier, teh most cerebral ball player the league has ever seen, yet he can't adapt to anyone else, everyone must adapt to him and when they fail they are just inept.

 

[Suleiman Bey]

The only thing irrelevant is how long Love had the ball when his team put up a 115 offensive rating and couldn't stop an AAU team. Still waiting on you to explain how Love getting the ball more against bad matchups improves that defense.

The best defense is a better offense.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

The only thing irrelevant is how long Love had the ball when his team put up a 115 offensive rating and couldn't stop an AAU team. Still waiting on you to explain how Love getting the ball more against bad matchups improves that defense.

It was actually a 111 ORTG, but hey, who's counting. In fact, if you looked at their ORTGs on a game-to-game basis, you'd see a difference:

Game 1 - Cavs had a 89 ORTG
Game 2 - Cavs had a 105 ORTG
Game 3 - Cavs had a 109 ORTG
Game 4 - Cavs had 123 ORTG
Game 5 - Cavs had a 118 ORTG (which is slightly affected by the garbage points they scored near the end)

Basically, apart from the anomaly Game 4 performance (which was heavily influenced by the refs), they really weren't that great on the offensive end. They simply made the most out of the pace of the game, at the expense of their defense.

To expand on that -

And you've gotta be "dumb as hell" to believe it's as simple as what you're making it out to be. The Cavs do have a great offense, ATG even, except they did have problems offensively. They were scoring a ton of points because of the pace [103.4] and expending most of their energy by trying to keep up with the Warriors offense, because that was the best way to give themselves a fighting chance. In the attempt of trying to fight fire with fire, the adverse effects of Bron ball reared its ugly head:

LeBron exhausting himself on offense and leaving little to no energy for defense, forcing lesser defenders to pick up the slack
Cavs' supporting cast less engaged and out of rhythm due to not getting regular, consistent touches, leading to them producing inconsistent offensive performances
Offense becoming too predictable - Kerr's gameplan was to let Kyrie and LeBron go 1v1 and live with the consequences because he knew they'd tire out eventually and it would nullify the Cavs 3-pt shooting.
Offensive-based players were reduced to lesser roles and forced to carry the team defensively, which led to an imbalance on both ends

This is the problem when you take things at face value, you can't see shyt for what it is.

If they balanced the offensive load evenly throughout the rotation in relation to each player's abilities/skillsets, players like LeBron (who are one of their strongest defensive players) would've had more energy on defense. They didn't need him to suffocate their possession count, because they have enough offensive talent to shoulder the load equally, what they really needed was LeBron's efforts on defense, because like it's known they don't have too many strong defensive players.

It's all about finding a balance in accordance to your personnel and playing to your team's strengths. The Cavs didn't do that.

 

[New Username]

I would trade kyrie before love.

Kyrie can't run an offense for shyt, and it's why bron gotta play 46 mins

You gotta be trolling

 

[Panther]

You gotta be trolling

What is kyrie good at besides scoring?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Eh, Kevin Love struggled to get post position against Klay Thompson, he's not the same guy he was in 2013-2014. The Cavs offensive system is simple, but it was having results and I'm not really sure how many different ways they could have used him. He could have had more elbow catches, but he's not really a threat to post up from there anymore with all the weight he's lost in the last 3 years and he's definitely not beating any Warriors with the dribble from there. If this were the fat version of Love from 2013-2014 the Cavs could post him up a lot more, and there's really no way Klay could have stopped him, but that Love was also terrible defensively so it's a trade off.

Except it really wasn't. The Warriors were allowing the Cavs to go 1v1, because they knew they'd eventually tire out. I did try telling you that the Cavs offense wasn't as good as you were making it out to be.

A motion-based offense that utilized the Cavs personnel properly would've been better for everyone involved, not only on offense but defense too. If LeBron wasn't so ball-dominant he would've had more energy for the defensive end, and that's where they really needed him most. The Cavs offense was far too predictable, adding more wrinkles/ball movement would've opened up a ton of shyt for them offensively, and would've made them harder to defend.

 

[Malta]

He's not teh same guy because he had to change to appease the LeBallhog. Everybody has to change their game to suit a guy who supposedly makes the game easier, teh most cerebral ball player the league has ever seen, yet he can't adapt to anyone else, everyone must adapt to him and when they fail they are just inept.

He had to lose weight because he was one of the worst defensive players in the NBA when he was with the Wolves. His game changed once he lost the weight, LeBron obviously effects that as well, but he's not posting anyone up with great success at his current weight, not like he did when he was fat.

Except it really wasn't. The Warriors were allowing the Cavs to go 1v1, because they knew they'd eventually tire out. I did try telling you that the Cavs offense wasn't as good as you were making it out to be.

A motion-based offense that utilized the Cavs personnel properly would've been better for everyone involved, not only on offense but defense too. If LeBron wasn't so ball-dominant he would've had more energy for the defensive end, and that's where they really needed him most. Cavs offense was far too predictable, adding more wrinkles/ball movement would've opened up a ton of shyt for them offensively.

You tried telling me the Cavs offense wasn't as good as I thought, yet all I see is a 114.6 ORTG and I'm taking that to the bank


They don't have the personnel for that, you need better passers than JR Smith & Tristan in your lineup to really have an effective motion offense. Their bench simply couldn't deal with the length/athleticism of the Warriors so it's not like they could run it either, they just aren't as talented as the Warriors. We all saw Kevin Love struggle to post up Klay Thompson when he was in that matchup, that should have been BBQ chicken all day long but it usually ended in some struggle shot.

 

[blackzeus]

You don't average 19 and 11 in a league by sucking. You don't get multiple all star selections by sucking. But I forgot this is the Coli where it's fukk logic let's say anything just to get some daps.

Love has his faults but he is not the only reason the Cavs lost that series. And the whole point of the thread was missed: Butler or PG can not replace what Love does for this Cavs team.

Love was by far the most consistent player in the series for the Cavs other than Bron, who gets the ball basically 80% of the time. Butler not going to the Cavs, and neither is PG. Nobody in their right mind gonna wanna play with Lebron other than defensive guys/dunkers. He done destroyed the careers of 2 legitimate HOF PFs.

 

[blackzeus]

Except it really wasn't. The Warriors were allowing the Cavs to go 1v1, because they knew they'd eventually tire out. I did try telling you that the Cavs offense wasn't as good as you were making it out to be.

A motion-based offense that utilized the Cavs personnel properly would've been better for everyone involved, not only on offense but defense too. If LeBron wasn't so ball-dominant he would've had more energy for the defensive end, and that's where they really needed him most. The Cavs offense was far too predictable, adding more wrinkles/ball movement would've opened up a ton of shyt for them offensively, and would've made them harder to defend.

The f*ckery that would occur if the Cavs won the series by Lebron averaging Scottie Pippen #s while Love scored the bulk of the points

 

[New Username]

What is kyrie good at besides scoring?

He's a game changer for one

What has KLove done for the cavs besides take up space and miss open 3s

 

[Panther]

He's a game changer for one

What has KLove done for the cavs besides take up space and miss open 3s

Cavs need someone who can score and get shots for other players while bron is on the bench. Kyrie can't do that. They also need a PG who plays defense

 

[FTBS]

It was actually a 111 ORTG, but hey, who's counting. In fact, if you looked at their ORTGs on a game-to-game basis, you'd see a difference:

Game 1 - Cavs had a 89 ORTG
Game 2 - Cavs had a 105 ORTG
Game 3 - Cavs had a 109 ORTG
Game 4 - Cavs had 123 ORTG
Game 5 - Cavs had a 118 ORTG (which is slightly affected by the garbage points they scored near the end)

Basically, apart from the anomaly Game 4 performance (which was heavily influenced by the refs), they really weren't that great on the offensive end. They simply made the most out of the pace of the game, at the expense of their defense.

To expand on that -

If they balanced the offensive load evenly throughout the rotation in relation to each player's abilities/skillsets, players like LeBron (who are one of their strongest defensive players) would've had more energy on defense. They didn't need him to suffocate their possession count, because they have enough offensive talent to shoulder the load equally, what they really needed was LeBron's efforts on defense, because like it's known they don't have too many strong defensive players.

It's all about finding a balance in accordance to your personnel and playing to your team's strengths. The Cavs didn't do that.

Bball reference says 115. Doesn't matter either way their defense was the far superior issue.

I take your avoidance/generalizing to mean that you really have no answer to my question.

 

[FTBS]

The best defense is a better offense.

Or...you know...better defense.