Charles Barkley rants about Analytics and destroys Rocket GM

[ghostwriterx]

So I don't understand this entire "He got Harden and he got Howard" argument...

First of all he didn't "get Harden"...OKC gave Harden away...it's not like he went to OKC and got them to give up a player they wanted...OKC put Harden out there to be traded and Morey gave them what they thought was the best deal...I don't see how this is some great accomplishment...This is just a GM offering up something for a player because he know's that player is available...this isn't say waht Kupchack did to get Gasol...now that was a GREAT MOVE...that was a "Hey Memphis give me your perrenail 18 and 9 all star big man and I will give you the rights to have his little brother who is currenlty so fat and out of shape he can't even run"...not that is a GREAT MOVE by a GM...

Are you trying to be sarcastic? Trading Marc for Pau was a "great" move by Kupchack? That trade took skill or insight on Mitch's part?

OKC gave Harden (a bench player at the time away) and Memphis didn't give Gasol away?

SMH at the lengths ya'll go to to discredit Morey.

 

[ghostwriterx]

Can someone explain to me how analytics is actually aiding the rockets in their personnel decisions bc I don't see it.

They signed Lin to a huge contract. Let Lowry and dragic leave. Signed Josh Smith, one of the most inefficient players in the league. Harden and dwight are their franchise players, both who I don't believe are capable of getting them to the finals.

As a Knicks fan I would love to be in Houston's situation. Not sure why winning a championship is the standard for whether or not analytics is effective. And if it is, its quite convenient that people ignore San Antonio and Dallas, who've been on analytics from the jump.

 

[ghostwriterx]

You really don't think a 4-time Defensive Player of the Year is in the conversation whatsoever?

Don't make it seem like I called him top 10. He was still great.

Was just odd to see him listed with the names you mentioned. I don't think he's a HOF.

 

[Anbesa]

As a Knicks fan I would love to be in Houston's situation. Not sure why winning a championship is the standard for whether or not analytics is effective. And if it is, its quite convenient that people ignore San Antonio and Dallas, who've been on analytics from the jump.

I don't deny them being a good team, and I'm sure half the league would love to have their roster. I was asking more if the analytics were a reason for the questionable personnel decisions made with the roster. Signing Lin and letting dragic/lowery go and signing Josh seem to go against the idea of analytics. Also I could be misunderstanding how they apply it and hindsight is 20/20

 

[Shamrock32]

Was just odd to see him listed with the names you mentioned. I don't think he's a HOF.

NBA Champion
4-time All-Star
4-Time Defensive Player of the Year
6 NBA All-Defense Selections (5 on 1st team, one 2nd team)
5 All-NBA selections (3 times on the All-NBA 2nd team, twice on the 3rd team)
The anchor to the team that competed for 7 consecutive Eastern Conference titles
Lead the NBA in rebounding twice (one year at 15.4 per game) and blocks once

His name will at least be debated in the war room

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Are you trying to be sarcastic? Trading Marc for Pau was a "great" move by Kupchack? That trade took skill or insight on Mitch's part?

OKC gave Harden (a bench player at the time away) and Memphis didn't give Gasol away?

SMH at the lengths ya'll go to to discredit Morey.

The trade included the pick eventually used on Marc I thought. Wasn't it kwame and a second round pick? That's a pretty easy call in my book.

 

[ghostwriterx]

I don't deny them being a good team, and I'm sure half the league would love to have their roster. I was asking more if the analytics were a reason for the questionable personnel decisions made with the roster. Signing Lin and letting dragic/lowery go and signing Josh seem to go against the idea of analytics. Also I could be misunderstanding how they apply it and hindsight is 20/20

I think the Lin signing was more about ownership wanting to tap into the Asian fan base/market. Even though the Rockets use analytics I don't its the sole thing they look at when making decisions, not a perfect science either. Agreed though, the Smith signing was odd.

 

[ghostwriterx]

NBA Champion
4-time All-Star
4-Time Defensive Player of the Year
6 NBA All-Defense Selections (5 on 1st team, one 2nd team)
5 All-NBA selections (3 times on the All-NBA 2nd team, twice on the 3rd team)
The anchor to the team that competed for 7 consecutive Eastern Conference titles
Lead the NBA in rebounding twice (one year at 15.4 per game) and blocks once

His name will at least be debated in the war room

Yeah, I guess he has an argument. Basketball HOF standards are notoriously weak too.

 

[ghostwriterx]

The trade included the pick eventually used on Marc I thought. Wasn't it kwame and a second round pick? That's a pretty easy call in my book.

Yeah, that's my point. It wasn't some stroke of genius on Mitch's part. Every GM in the league would have made that trade.

 

[Shamrock32]

Yeah, I guess he has an argument. Basketball HOF standards are notoriously weak too.

Yeah, I feel like in the past the goal was to induct the very best of the best. Nowadays, even beyond the HOF, people are to concerned with shyt that shouldn't apply.

Like "oh this team is the 5th seed, so they have to have an All-Star because this other team got 2" As opposed to just picking the top 12 players.

 

[#SOG_soldier]

Yeah, I feel like in the past the goal was to induct the very best of the best. Nowadays, even beyond the HOF, people are to concerned with shyt that shouldn't apply.

Like "oh this team is the 5th seed, so they have to have an All-Star because this other team got 2" As opposed to just picking the top 12 players.

so what you saying is 4th options that cant play defense shouldn't be All-stars?

Klye Korver fans gone be heated

 

[ghostwriterx]

Yeah, I feel like in the past the goal was to induct the very best of the best. Nowadays, even beyond the HOF, people are to concerned with shyt that shouldn't apply.

Like "oh this team is the 5th seed, so they have to have an All-Star because this other team got 2" As opposed to just picking the top 12 players.

It was probably even worse back in the day. There's cats from those old Celtic teams that didn't average 10ppg for their careers.

 

[Henry Orbit]

Chuck's been trippin lately. He just said "bullshyt" on live TV

 

[K-Deini]

chuck gonna get himself suspended lol

 

[FemiO]

Charles is right and wrong. He is right about talent. Talent is what ultimately wins championships. It comes down to who has the best players on the court and whose coach can put those players in the best situations to succeed.

OTOH, hes wrong about player analysis because it can be a very helpful tool. However, advanced player analysis can also be a bad thing.

An example of advanced metrics working is when the Grizz figured out that they had to get rid of Rudy Gay because the way he was getting his points was hindering their offensive potential.

An example of advanced metrics failing is when Chris Grant drafted Dion Waiters because his advanced college metrics made him look like the second coming of Dwyane Wade.

i think we can sum it up here

analytics are good for identifying current problems and trends on a team

but they suck at predicting things