Clair Obscur Expedition 33 ending discussion

Who was right?

  • Verso

  • Maelle


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Maude

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Maelle wanted to give Alicia agency so she gommaged her when Alicia said she wanted to be with her family. Despite Verso's dying wish Maelle repainted him and is using him for entertainment for all of her loved ones which seems against his will. She and her mother seem the least level headed of painters and expedition.
 

Kamikaze Revy

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Warning titangraph ahead but with a game like this I enjoy sharing the thoughts.

Finished the game last night and really enjoyed reading everyone's takes on the story and their reasoning for picking the ending they picked.
I think that's what great story writing is about. Eliciting emotional and logical responses from the viewer.
Numbered systems for ratings often do a disservice to the work done by the team, but if I had to give the game as a whole a rating I'd go with a strong 9/10.
The game is being critically acclaimed for all the right reasons so I won't rehash every thing I liked about the game in detail because for the most part we all agree, the gameplay, graphics, music, pacing, the story, characters, enemies, the world, etc. all of it, was just top tier bar raising stuff.
Where the game falls short of perfection to me is in 2 things.

1. Lack of map inside the actual "stages" or POIs (for lack of a better way to put it). Not the end of the world of course, but a bit more than a mild annoyance especially in some areas where it was a little less than clear where you had to go and what areas were available to explore.

2. The story (which is really the point of this thread and I'm glad to see so many great takes on the options each person went with).
The story is amazing, however, with a story this great, the gaps are a bit easier to spot. Quite a bit of critical narrative information is tucked away in the expedition journals and even still it isn't right on the nose as you would hope it to be. A couple key plot points felt rushed; The plot twist itself - revealing that we are essentially in "the matrix"of sorts, was a bit jarring, which was never fully remedied since they didn't spend time fleshing out what the outside or "real" world was really about. It introduced a ton of narrative questions like - Who are "the writers"? Why are they at odds with "the painters"? How in the world do the painters have magical special powers? Do the writers have powers? I don't feel like the gommage itself was properly explained- sure we learn that it wasn't the paintress actually killing everyone, she was actually warning everyone of what Renoir was doing, which he was triggering the gommage as a way to try and force his family out of the painting, but even knowing that, why did he tie the gommage to be yearly? Why did it effect people sequentially and not randomly?

For the ending specifically, I enjoy that there is no "canon" ending, and the fact that neither choice leaves you full happy with how everything ends. I chose Maelle's ending but that was after staring at my screen for at least 10 minutes weighing everything that happened with the possibility of what would happen if the painting was destroyed. Neither decision felt 100% right and I'm cool with that. On one hand, as a father, I felt like the right thing would have been to reunite the family at all costs and say "screw the matrix". On the other hand, I thought, this fake existence has been the only thing that has brought joy to Maelle and in the real world, her mother is dying, her father is old, her sister is ready to go to war, so what quality of life will she have anyway? My thought was, she might be in the real world for a little bit, just to suffer and die anyway. The saddest part to me was honestly Verso. With him, I empathized the most. He felt caught in the middle and regardless of your choice, Verso was either going to die a quick death, or suffer in a phony existence where his only function is to ease Maelle's pain. In either scenario, Verso loses himself, and never truly gets to rest in peace. Seeing him sadly play the piano at the end was actually tough to watch. It really did make me second guess my decision.
 

Gizmo_Duck

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out of the painting, but even knowing that, why did he tie the gommage to be yearly? Why did it effect people sequentially and not randomly?

I think the annual gommage and aging thing was controlled somewhat by Aline. If she wanted to give them more “time” then it would make sense to gommage the oldest citizens first, that way the younger generations could still live a somewhat normal life or take advantage of the time they had to left to stop Renoir/Curator.

Making it yearly probably created some kind of order for them to properly prepare for it. Everything Aline was doing was a mercy to the people of lumeir.

As far as what was going on in the outside world, i think I’m ok with not fully having everything explained, not in this game at least if it’s gonna be a series. It makes me feel a bit less sympathetic and connected to the Dessendre family but if they had really built more of the plot around them the ending choice would feel even easier to make. As of right now I’m kind of baffled at how easily it is for some people to just kill off the main cast of characters and the world we inhabited for The past 30-40 hours. Imagine if they gave you even more reasons to want to put the Dessendre’s back together?
 

Kamikaze Revy

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Yeah, however she very well knows the full scope of the real truth and has essentially lived both of her lives to that same age and has the full scale of all of her memories by the end of the game. So she still is uneqivocally aware that the painting....is just a painting.

Its not just a painting its magic, they have the ability to create life.

My thing is, if they're really real, they should be able to bring them out of the painting as well. Yet that is never presented as an option. Which has me to believe it's due to it not being an option. So they're only as real as the painting.
Nothing in the painting is "real".
The matrix really is the best analogy for this game.
The only "real" characters are Renoir, Maelle, Aline (the paintress), and Clea.
Verso died as a child and his existence in the painting is a projection of what he would have grown up to be. [@gizmo_duck corrected me on this- Verso was older when he passed. Point remains though that he's dead and not "real"]
Maelle being "born" in the painting is how she decided to paint herself as a way to get a fresh start and get a second chance to be with her brother.
The entire story is how a family dealt with the grief of losing Verso while also dealing with some type of war/battle with "the writers" for reasons that aren't explored.

Now the argument can be made on what is "real" and how much "real" matters to you.
It's the matrix argument.
Some rather deal with the good, the bad, and the ugly of the "real" world.
Some will say "what's the point suffering in the real world when we're perfectly happy in the matrix". (What did Cypher say in the matrix? - Ignorance is bliss).
 
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Kamikaze Revy

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I think the annual gommage and aging thing was controlled somewhat by Aline. If she wanted to give them more “time” then it would make sense to gommage the oldest citizens first, that way the younger generations could still live a somewhat normal life or take advantage of the time they had to left to stop Renoir/Curator.

Making it yearly probably created some kind of order for them to properly prepare for it. Everything Aline was doing was a mercy to the people of lumeir.

As far as what was going on in the outside world, i think I’m ok with not fully having everything explained, not in this game at least if it’s gonna be a series. It makes me feel a bit less sympathetic and connected to the Dessendre family but if they had really built more of the plot around them the ending choice would feel even easier to make. As of right now I’m kind of baffled at how easily it is for some people to just kill off the main cast of characters and the world we inhabited for The past 30-40 hours. Imagine if they gave you even more reasons to want to put the Dessendre’s back together?
Very good points, and you're right, they did mention that the gommage was held at bay by Aline, and making it yearly and effecting the oldest makes perfect sense.

As for the end choice, I see both sides exactly the same.
The question you're asking is actually very deep and perfectly timed for the world we live in today.
We're living in a time where people don't care that A.I. is fake. They just care about it's convenience and the way it makes you feel.
Some people are morally appalled by A.I. because the "real" is sacred, and the "real" is the only thing that matters - I think that's why some people were able to quickly come to the decision to destroy the painting.
 

Gizmo_Duck

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Verso died as a child and his existence in the painting is a projection of what he would have grown up to be.

This is wrong, his headstone says he was 26


about-the-implications-of-the-number-33-v0-5utk75ibysze1.jpeg



Verso’s souls is depicted as a child in the painting because thats when he painted it, not when he died.

Maelle being "born" in the painting is how she decided to paint herself as a way to get a fresh start and get a second chance to be with her brother

Also, i think this is off. Aline re-painted Maelle into the canvas in order for her to grow attached to the world and ultimately help her fight Renoir. She’s the one who “fixed” her and wiped her memory of the real world. Clea says, “oh well, maman has discovered you and trapped you here but at least you won’t be a burden to me in the meanwhile” or something to that effect
 
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Kamikaze Revy

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This is wrong, his headstone says he was 26


about-the-implications-of-the-number-33-v0-5utk75ibysze1.jpeg



Verso’s souls is depicted as a child in the painting because thats when he painted it, not when he died.



Also, i think this is off. Aline re-painted Maelle into the canvas in order for her to grow attached to the world and ultimately help her fight Renoir. She’s the one who “fixed” her and wiped her memory of the real world. Clea says, “oh well, maman has discovered you and trapped you here but at least you won’t be a burden to me in the meanwhile” or something to that effect
Oh ok. Makes perfect sense.
 

Gizmo_Duck

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Very good points, and you're right, they did mention that the gommage was held at bay by Aline, and making it yearly and effecting the oldest makes perfect sense.

As for the end choice, I see both sides exactly the same.
The question you're asking is actually very deep and perfectly timed for the world we live in today.
We're living in a time where people don't care that A.I. is fake. They just care about it's convenience and the way it makes you feel.
Some people are morally appalled by A.I. because the "real" is sacred, and the "real" is the only thing that matters - I think that's why some people were able to quickly come to the decision to destroy the painting.

I just can’t get behind the “they are highly sophisticated AI” essentially because that would mean the entire purpose of the game is kind of redundant. Everyone could have just lived their tragically short lives (since they really don’t matter in the long run) and eventually everyone gets gommaged off the planet and Aline is forced out of the canvas with no more Chroma. The only thing Expedition 33 did was speed up the process, if you choose Verso’s ending.

then it just because a gloomy nihilistic experience instead of a game about hope and resilience.

Like i said earlier, i feel like that’s kind of a deeper philosophical question and not one thats just “real or not real” or “dream or not a dream” or “ai/matrix or real world”.

if an asteroid from space eventually strikes earth and wipes out all life, does the universe stop existing? No, but it doesn’t make our small time in it any less meaningless.
 

Kamikaze Revy

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I just can’t get behind the “they are highly sophisticated AI” essentially because that would mean the entire purpose of the game is kind of redundant. Everyone could have just lived their tragically short lives (since they really don’t matter in the long run) and eventually everyone gets gommaged off the planet and Aline is forced out of the canvas with no more Chroma. The only thing Expedition 33 did was speed up the process, if you choose Verso’s ending.

then it just because a gloomy nihilistic experience instead of a game about hope and resilience.

Like i said earlier, i feel like that’s kind of a deeper philosophical question and not one thats just “real or not real” or “dream or not a dream” or “ai/matrix or real world”.

if an asteroid from space eventually strikes earth and wipes out all life, does the universe stop existing? No, but it doesn’t make our small time in it any less meaningless.
But that's the disconnect and the crux of the debate people are having.
What you're describing here is a real life asteroid hitting a real life planet.
The game poses the question of would you prioritize happiness within an illusion over heartbreak in a reality?
There is no "right" answer but I can also see how people can arrive to their conclusion rather quickly.
For me personally, it took some serious thought before making my choice.
 

42 Monks

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Whole family needs a therapist honestly. Maelle's ending would have 0 justification if they didn't blame her for Verso's death and treated her with the respect she wanted.
they treated her like shyt

and she's a 'god' too. so her playing in the sanbox for a while isn't some wild, unprecedented thing either. even renoir ran off into his own world for a while.

if anyone checked on her *at all* it'd be wildly different. clea hit her with the "that's tough, good luck bytch" and she was the only one even checking on her after horrific injuries.
 

42 Monks

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also, how much time in the painting counts for time in the real world? :jbhmm: because Clea could've dropped in to wrap up Aline and Renoir's struggle between moving clothes from the washer to the dryer

"you'll die if you stay here :mjcry:" doesn't math at all
 
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