Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[spliz]

He got a point,show some respect spliz

I look at that list and cant help but see it look as if you tried to just slide those albums in on some slick shyt,as if they was same level as Doggystyle,The Chronic....i dont think you was trying to,but from a west coast point of view i cant help but cringe.

Dog. It was a list that consisted of Commercial and Critical successes. I wasn't comparing the albums. U have albums that was both. Like Doggystyle, Ready To Die, The Chronic etc. There was albums that were only commercial succeses. There was albums that was only a critical success which is albums like Illmatic. Then there's RD. Which was none of those things.

 

[lutha]

What exactly do you mean by this?
The album was largely ignored and meant nothing. No mark was made

i mean exactly what it says: when the album dropped, people bumped it...it got play....

here we go with the it 'mark' shyt again...aight man.....

 

[Mr. Negative]

of course it came out and made an impact in the rap game. People was bumping it.

Hell, shyt went gold the same year it came out. That's half a mil sold. Dude must've been a star to be on people's radar like that.


I'm talking about Cappadonna's The Pillage from 1998.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

I don't want to argue semantics about what "mark" means but Jay was just another rapper when "RD" came out. He was just a guy with an album out. It didn't hit like "OB4CL" or "Doggystyle".

"Hit" don't mean hit records or sales. It means, people talking about it. It being inescapable among rap fans. If you were in school at the time, cats knowing the lyrics. Arguing over the best song.

That is what @spliz is talking about.



We aren't talking about the same thing.

You're talking about, if you heard the album you knew Jay was special. I'm saying, he was just another random ass rapper with an album out....he didn't even benefit from being "the next Rakim" like Nas. So people slept on the album. I knew one guy that had that album, and I was pretty indifferent to listening to it even after he recommended it to me. And even after I did listen to it....everyone else was the same way. You can't force people to listen to music if they're about it.

Fred.

OB4CL is not on doggystyle's level of success.
On what planet did they hit the same?
OB4CL performed like RD are worse.

 

[choppybeats]

18 weeks on the charts, tho

yea it took awhile to hit plat but Aint No and Brooklyns Finest were everywhere

How aint no was recorded . Done with sample being played on pads live it was done on the spot. Foxy came in the studio and just spit her verse on the spot she was young as hell. It was done i think in one take

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

illmatic had a commercial impact ?

Naw,not on the streets either

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Reasonable Doubt wasn't big when it was out. At all. Bone Thugs was even going stronger. Jay Z blew up after BIG died and those singles started catching fire. Just like that Master P and No Limit shyt spread out after Pac died. No one ever HEARD of Master P when Tupac was alive.

Wrong we were bumping P in 1994 in Cincinnati and Tru TRUE was real big out here in 1995.
Hotter on the streets than OB4CL,Infamous (out here in cinci)

 

[Still Benefited]

Dog. It was a list that consisted of Commercial and Critical successes. I wasn't comparing the albums. U have albums that was both. Like Doggystyle, Ready To Die, The Chronic etc. There was albums that were only commercial succeses. There was albums that was only a critical success which is albums like Illmatic. Then there's RD. Which was none of those things.

I got what you saying,but its still levels to this,and albums that had critical success alone,shouldnt be put in the same category as those that had both.....illmatic wasnt in the same stratusphere with Doggystle,Nas wasnt in the same stratosphere as Snoop....this needs to be said for the same reasons,you hell bent on letting it be known Future was right about RD...the asterisk is neccesary to differentiate.

What you are in here doing with RD,dispelling the myth it was hot and had impact when it dropped....is the exact same thing I'm doing with Illmatic....Nas had his moment later,but I'm in here for the purpose of accuracy just like you playboy.

Put it this way,Jayz and RD was closer to Nas and Illmatic, then Nas and Illmatic was to Doggystyle...i got a right to be more dismissive of this Nas nonsense,then you do Jay and RD

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

He wasn't a random cat. He was far from Illmatic Nas. In terms of reception.

Illmatic wasnt a factor. It was written made nas a factor in hiphop

 

[Stack Money]

I knew Jay haters/Nas stans/Future dikkriders would be in here co-signin this dumb shyt, nikkas talmbout Jay not bein huge til 98 and Reasonable Doubt not sellin alot when it dropped but Future not sayin that. By "hot" he claimin cats weren't listenin to it and sayin Illmatic was "hot" when it first dropped but Reasonable Doubt wasn't which is bullshyt, both them albums didn't sell much out the gate it took Illmatic years to go platinum toobut Future and cats in here wanna rewrite history and say Nas was big while Jay wasn't relevant. Pac stayed dissin Jay along wit Nas and Biggie he wouldn't have been mentionin Jay if he wasn't relevant, cats out here were bumpin Reasonable Doubt when it dropped and radios were playin Ain't No nikka Can't Knock The Hustle and Dead Presidents wit both critics and heads callin it classic so while it didn't have "commercial" success til later he was definitely "hot".

Stop.

RD debuted about around 23 on the billboard charts
It sold only 420,000 copies at that time
And Jay-z considered retiring

Yall Jigga stans STAY tryin to re-write this mans career.

Illmatic only sold 59,000 first week so if Jay wasn't "hot" and relevant then neither was Nas, yall Jay haters and Nas stans are tryna rewrite Jay's career I remember cats on here a while back agreein that Illmatic wasn't "hot" when it first dropped and got more recognition and sales over time but now yall sayin Jay was so irrelevant while Nas was "hot" out the gate.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

I already addressed this thruout the thread. Illmatic didn't have a commercial impact. Even tho the crazy bootlegging hindered it. But it had a critical impact. When Nas dropped the whole rap game took notice. Reasonable Doubt was a dope album but it didn't have either a commercial or a critical impact. It was just another dope album. Illmatic and the other albums I listed weren't look at in that way. Reasonable Doubt didn't solidify Jay. And even he would tell u this. It was a slept on album unfortunately. Even locally. I'm born n raised in NYC and I had the album on release. nikkas felt the shyt was dope but it wasn't what it's looked at as right now. It was a grower as far as it's classic status. Who cares tho. People don't always catch on right away. And Jay fans seem to hate and rewrite any point in his career where he wasn't looked at as "that nikka".

All albums get bootlegged.
That's just an excuse to avoid the reality that the public gave a fukk about nas in 1994

 

[Nostalgic]

It's not different.
Nas flopped and bootlegging happens to everyone,not just artists you (and others) like to make excuses for.
His position with the general public didnt match the east coast hype machine,so he flopped and and had to change his whole style from queens street tough to Mafioso jiggy rapper to sale records.

Not bootlegging on the level Nas had to deal with at the start of his career

Nas would record a song for illmatic at D&D studios
by the time he would make it back to QueensBridge the song would leak out.
And this was decades before the internet and social media

Still with the heavy bootlegging illmatic was considered an off the bat classic

 

[charmander]

RD is prolly eurohov's best album besides the blueprint but i agree with future's entire message

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Son I'm not gonna argue wit u. It's obvious an east coast nikka fukked ya bytch.

has nothing to do with nothing,nikka please

 

[crush_sumpin]

imo, there are a lot of people old enough to know better, but can't reply speak on hip hop with power, and be correct. a lot of people fall into the group thought of whatever the popular response is to the question. For example: "2pac is the greatest rapper ever" "biggie is the best to ever do it" I disagree with both of these statements [2pac was a sub par rapper, as far as cadence and flow and lyrical content..now he might be the REALEST, in terms of shooting cops starring in movies, court cases hit songs etc., but the best? no. and biggie only did 2 albums and some features. when he changed his flow from the yelling to the conversational delivery, only then did he begin to tap into what he was capable of. I don't feel we heard enough to say he is the greatest. because of how they got killed and what coast they represented they are to be considered the greatest? I don't think so]. I really liked "politics as usual" & "cashmere thoughts" the best on that album when it came out, as well as that ohio players loop driving biggie and jay on "brooklyn's finest". I honestly liked those when they first came out. hip hop heads were checking for "reasonable doubt" but aside from "ain't no nikka" the general public couldn't care less. I agree that the deaths of 2pac & biggie & the whole beef gave jay z an opening & him linking with the def jam machine, as well as the east coast push of dmx & ja rule helped as well. jay z even had one album that was a straight brick right? the one with all the puff daddy type remakes? when you say the best rapper or the best album, you have to first define the criteria. and beyond your personal opinion, what is your background that makes you able to speak on the topic? yeah dude got popular and people backtracked and heard it later and want to say its the best but i agree with future on this topic.