If you didnt win Finals MVP, does your ring really count? I don't think that it should. You clearly weren't the main key to winning the championship - a role player. The likes of Pippen, Fischer, Kerr, Rodman and Horry made key plays after key plays in the finals as well but they are somehow not part of the conversation.
THIS.
Either the best player can win a ring on his own, and the "RINGZ!1!" guys mean something...or he needs significant help from the other players, and your number of rings is just a function of how good your organization was.
It's totally senseless to blame the best player on the runner-up for losing the ring, while giving the 2nd-best player on the winner all the credit.
MVPs say something big about the player every time. Finals MVPs say something big about the player most of the time. Rings say way more about the team than the player.
Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Lebron, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Oscar...yup.
Take out any of those and Kobe still doesn't make it. Can't become top-10 on volume shooting and a great organization alone.
If Kobe won 2 more rings but, was the 4th best player on the team averaging 14 points a game, would we finally say he was better than Jordan?
No, because Jordan would have 6 Finals MVPs and 5 regular season MVPs, while Kobe would still be stuck at 2 and 1.
Are you realizing how utterly stupid the "rings" argument is now?
No... fukk no.
Outside of them first ten years dude been a straight role player.
Tim Duncan - the only player in NBA history to make five All-NBA teams, AFTER he became a "role player".
In his 11th and 12th seasons, he averaged 20-11-3-1-2 on 51% shooting.
In his 16th season, he was putting up 18-10-3-1-3 on 50% shooting, finished top-10 in MVP voting, 1st-team All-NBA, 2nd-team All-Defense and was Kawhi free-throw away from picking up his 4th Finals MVP.
The man has finished top-15 in MVP voting six times since 2008. And you're saying those are his "role player" years?
Ehh hasn't averaged 20ppg in 8 years, Kobe is 4-2 against Spurs in playoffs.
He's been very good for a long time, but at his peak was never better than Shaq, Lebron, Kobe, Dream
At Duncan's peak, he won back-to-back MVPs, finished top-2 in MVP voting four straight years, top-5 in MVP voting for 8 consecutive years, and won 4 titles in 8 years.
At Kobe's peak, he didn't win a playoff round for 3 straight years and didn't even get a single MVP vote one of those years.
What the hell are you considering "Kobe's peak" that you could ever list it as better than Duncan?
I'll give you Lebron, Shaq, and Dream, though it's really close.
Guys are still counting "Kobe's" record against the Spurs as if Shaq was the primary force on that team for 80% of those series. Pop was just ignoring Kobe and letting him rip off as many shots as he wanted while the team's whole defensive philosophy revolved around Shaq.
Would ya'll nikkas be saying the same shyt if Kobe or LeBron win rings as role players
People count Kobe's first ring all the time, when he averaged 15-4-4 on 37% shooting in the Finals (played the FIFTH most minutes of anyone on the team) and didn't even average 20ppg in the regular season. You could have had Nick Van Exel starting in his place and the would have won the same ring.
So it's only about rings? Has he at least avg 30 pts a season? How many mvps including allstar mvps does he have etc....... where's he at points alltime?
What the hell does 30ppg have anything to do with anything?
Karl Malone, Rick Barry, Bob McAdoo, Tiny Archibald, and a bunch of white dudes I've never heard of from the 1960s have 30ppg seasons.
Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, and Bill Russell don't.
Points all time? He's at #14, well behind Karl Malone at #2, Dirk at #6, and Elvin Hayes at #9. I'm sure they're all in your top-ten, right?
Of course, if Duncan had come out at 18 instead of 22, he's be up at #5 or #6. (Hell, just adding in his college points alone would put him at #7.) But I'm sure the measure of a player's greatness is whether they played college ball or not?
All-star MVPs.
You Kobestans pick the all-time dumbest criteria ever.
