~~~MMSex's Comprehensive Guide to Cutting for Beginners/Overweight/Obese~~~

HoustonHeat

In and out
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,440
Reputation
530
Daps
3,704
Reppin
Houston
At the same time I still feel off adding calories when I have fat to cut.
I've been there, especially during cutting (I cut 10% of my body weight in July). You have to look at it like fuel, if you under nourish, your body will go into fat preservation mode and you won't see your losses coming off that easily. Add another protein shake to your day and use a brand that is low in sugar and calories. I like Dymatize (it tastes good too). Or you can hard boil a bunch of eggs and just eat the egg whites with salt and pepper. Just think of it as fuel. When you are cutting and doing intense cardio, your body will release a lot of toxins and also your inflammation rates will increase. This is the time to add in fish oil capsules if you haven't already.

I don't mean to sound lectury at all. Unfortunately, I've seen the impacts of overtraining and under nourishing when first entering a routine myself, and the damage is a hard route to recover from.
 

MMS

Intensity Integrity Intelligence
Staff member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
26,799
Reputation
3,863
Daps
31,977
Reppin
Auburn, AL
I haven't been doing the routine crazy long but as I was running hills this morning the first few my knees were like :usure:. I can see what you mean about not doing those to often, the treadmill routine twice a week is plenty.

I can seem to find a good extra 200 calories that also increases protein at a good ratio right now. Today looks like:

Calories Carbs Fat Protein
1,559 155 23 184

At the same time I still feel off adding calories when I have fat to cut.

folks still aint listening to me about lifting vs cardio i see :snoop:
 

The ADD

Old Master
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
49,322
Reputation
6,617
Daps
102,331
I've been there, especially during cutting (I cut 10% of my body weight in July). You have to look at it like fuel, if you under nourish, your body will go into fat preservation mode and you won't see your losses coming off that easily. Add another protein shake to your day and use a brand that is low in sugar and calories. I like Dymatize (it tastes good too). Or you can hard boil a bunch of eggs and just eat the egg whites with salt and pepper. Just think of it as fuel. When you are cutting and doing intense cardio, your body will release a lot of toxins and also your inflammation rates will increase. This is the time to add in fish oil capsules if you haven't already.

I don't mean to sound lectury at all. Unfortunately, I've seen the impacts of overtraining and under nourishing when first entering a routine myself, and the damage is a hard route to recover from.

I hear you. My mind is like "Once you hit X number of the scale THEN you can add those 200 cals and if the process slows down so be it", its just an internal battle.



folks still aint listening to me about lifting vs cardio i see :snoop:

:whoa:

You suggest zero cardio correct?
 

MMS

Intensity Integrity Intelligence
Staff member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
26,799
Reputation
3,863
Daps
31,977
Reppin
Auburn, AL
:whoa:

You suggest zero cardio correct?

***Courtesy wave_length @ bodybuilding.com***

How to lose fat for Noobs - Part II - Bodybuilding.com Forums

[size=+2]Wavelength Guide to Bodybuilding v3.0[/size]

The goal of bodybuilding is to improve body composition by losing fat and/or gaining muscle mass. If total body weight goes down in the process, the method is generally referred to as "cutting", if total body weight goes up, it's called "bulking", if body weight stays about the same, it's called "recomping".


[size=+1]1 Cutting[/size]

1.1 Essential Rules

- Workout with weights about 3 times a week.
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight loss is maintained.

The recommended rate of weight loss depends on your current body fat level. Generally, the higher your bodyfat, the higher the rate of weight loss can potentially be. The best indication for the rate being too high is if you rapidly lose strength in the gym. In this case, increase your intake and go for a smaller rate of weight loss. In general, a rate of about 1-2lbs per week is recommended.

Any cutting method that follows the above rules is close to optimal, any further details will not have significant effect on body composition. If you already have a meal plan, just check if these rules are followed and adjust if not.

1.2 Measuring Progress and Adjusting Food Intake

- Weigh yourself once a week, always at the same time (e.g. right after waking up).
- Don't panic if your weight stays the same or even goes up for one or two weeks.
- If your weight does not go down for more than three weeks, slightly reduce calories.
- If your rate of weight loss is above the desired value, slightly increase calories.
- The change in daily calories from those adjustments should not exceed 500 cals.
- After adjustment, stay on the new value for at least three weeks before adjusting again.

If you have never done a cutting diet, it's always better to start with more calories and reduce slowly until the desired rate of weight loss is maintained. If you stay patient, you will not have to adjust very often. With more experience, you will not have to count calories anymore, but as a beginner it is probably a good idea.

1.3 Unessential Factors

Since many questions revolve around further details of cutting diets, here is a list of factors that I believe to be of insignificant effect for body composition:

- Cardio and fat burners,
- Meal timing and meal frequency,
- Protein / Carb / Fat distribution throughout the day,
- carb / fat ratio,
- Sodium intake,
- Moderate alcohol intake,
- Use of supplements resp. meal replacements,
- "Clean" food vs. Junk food (sugar and saturated fat).

All these factors should be used as tools to make the diet as convenient as possible. Many people e.g. have an easier time dieting with eating more calories and doing cardio or taking fat burners. Some people like myself have an easier time without cardio and fat burners. In my experience, the end result (body composition improvement) is not significantly influenced. Another example is protein supplements. I e.g. use whey powder to meet my daily protein intake out of convenience. I could just as well get all my protein from other sources. A third example is meal frequency and timing. This tool should be used to reduce hunger as much as possible throughout the day. For some people that means eating 6 times a day, for others it means eating only once or twice a day.


[size=+1]2 Bulking and Recomping[/size]

The only factor that changes for bulking or recomping is that the rate of weight change X is positive resp. zero. All other essential rules are exactly the same as for cutting (see sections above).

For bulking, the critical factor is the value of X. Everyone has a different ability to gain weight with a certain ratio of muscle vs. fat gain. This ability is dependent on things like genetics, age, training experience, etc. The ratio will decrease the higher X is, but not in a linear way. The trick is to find the optimal value for X, where the ratio is still close to optimum. Unfortunally, this is solely a matter of experience. My advise would be to increase calories by 500 over maintenance and check if weight goes up while fat gains are still tolerable. If no weight is gained, increase calories again. If fat gains are too high, decrease calories.

For recomping (staying at about the same total body weight), just weigh yourself from time to time and adjust food intake accordingly to maintain that weight. You can e.g. weigh yourself in the morning and just skip your last meal of the day if you're above target weight. You can determine your progress by how much strength you gain in the gym, by taking measurements (e.g. waist size), or simply by looking in the mirror.


[size=+1]3 Weight Training[/size]

Weight training refers to intense (anaerobic) strength training in this guide. This applies to all three variants of bodybuilding (cutting, bulking, and recomping). There are many methods of weight training, a typical 3 day split program is assembled here (the numbers refer to number of exercises):

Day1: 3 x Chest, 2 x Biceps, 1 x Abs
Day2: Rest
Day3: 4 x Legs, 2 x Shoulders
Day4: Rest
Day5: 2 x Back, 2 x Triceps, 1 x Traps, 1 x Abs
Day6: Rest
Day7: Rest

For each exercise, do one light warmup set, then go up with the weight on the next 2-3 sets, and do one or two heavy sets to failure or close to failure. For the smaller exercises (e.g. biceps), the number of sets can also only be 3-4 though. Repetition numbers should be in the range of 15-6. For the exercises one could e.g. do (in the above order):

3 x Chest: BB Presses, DB Incline Presses, Dips
2 x Biceps: DB Curls, Concentration/Cable Curls
1 x Abs: Situps
4 x Legs: Squats or Leg Presses, Leg Extensions, Leg Curls, Calf Raises
2 x Shoulders: DB presses, Seated Rear Lateral DB Raises
2 x Back: Pullups, Cable Pulldowns
2 x Triceps: Skull Crushers, Cable Pushdowns
1 x Traps: DB Shrugs
1 x Abs: Leg Raises

These are of course only examples, there are plenty of other exercises that can be used as replacements. There are also plenty of other workout plans such as HST, German Volume Training, etc. What's most important is that the training is intense and that all major muscle groups are involved throughout the week.


[size=+1]4 Psychological Tips and Tricks[/size]

- It is possible that you will not "see" changes in the mirror unless your bodyfat is rather low. Don't panic, as long as the rules are followed, everything is right on track.

- If at all, only assess your physique right after a workout. At other times it's too dependent on water retention, and the mind will play tricks on you (telling you your progress sucks, etc.).

- Have a cheat/pig-out day once in a while, where you eat what you want. I had one every week on my last diet. Don't feel guilty about it, as long as the rules are still followed (total intake still leads to the desired rate of weight change), everything is allright.

- Don't take the whole thing too serious. It's better to not care about it so much. See it more as being the coach of another person, rather than yourself.


[size=+1]5 Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

Q: How do I determine how much calories I should consume?
A: You can just go by what you currently eat and reduce from there as described in the guide. Alternativiely, use a calorie calculator like the "Total Metabolism Forecaster", see link section.

Q: Is it important to get the same amount of calories resp. macros every day?
A: No, it's OK to eat a little less one day and more the next.

Q: How do I determine my lean body mass for calculating my protein intake?
A: You have to take your total body weight and subtract your fat weight. If you e.g. weigh 200lbs and your bodyfat is 20% (=40lbs), your lean body mass is 200lbs - 40lbs = 160lbs. If you don't know your bodyfat, just take a guess. When in doubt, just eat a little more. However, if for some reason, you can't eat as much protein, just eat a little less, most people will still do fine.

Q: Does it matter where I get my protein from and what are good protein sources?
A: Generally, it does not matter. You can get your protein from meat, fish, eggs, cheese, protein powder, etc. Although there are differences in quality (regarding muscle sparing effect), they can easily be made up for with just a little more quantity.

Q: I work out less/more than 3 times a week, is that OK?
A: Yes, as long as all other essential rules are followed. Some people get away with less, some do better on more.

Q: I lost a lot of weight in the first few weeks but weight loss has slowed down, why?
A: The initial weight loss was probably mostly water loss. Stay at the current intake for at least another 3 weeks. If weight loss stalls, slightly reduce calories as described in the guide.

Q: What about keto diets?
A: Principally, keto diets (very low carb diets), as long as they follow all rules, would be fine. IMO, some people have a problem preserving muscle mass on a keto diet. For other people it works great. I don't think keto diets provide a significant advantage other than maybe being more convenient for some people.

Q: What about post workout nutrition?
A: I would not intentionally starve myself of protein after a workout. A meal containing some protein or a shake is perfectly fine.

Q: Apart from body composition, what about health?
A: First of all, it is important to distinguish between the goal of optimal body composition and the goal of optimal health. For the former, the guide provides all essential rules. For the latter, opinions vary a lot between experts and over time (see e.g. saturated fat, GI, food processing, cholesterol, etc.). Therefore, IMO the best way to go is to eat a wide variety of foods.

Q: How can I lose fat in certain areas of my body?
A: Although there are theories that spot reduction is possible to a certain degree, generally IMO it's not feasible. You can only reduce overall bodyfat and wait for the problem areas to come in.

Q: What exactly is your diet?
A: My cutting diet is somewhat extreme (see Links section). For bulking, I add a meal or two. That's just the most convenient way for me. However, every other diet that follows the essential rules is also perfectly OK.

Q: Should I eat differently on workout days than on off days?
A: That's not necessary, but if you're hungrier on workout days, you can eat a little more (out of convenience).

Q: Does this guide also work for girls?
A: Of course!


[size=+1]6 Links[/size]

How to lose fat for Noobs: How to lose fat for Noobs - Bodybuilding.com Forums
How to lose fat for Noobs part 2: Bodybuilding.com Forums
Wavelength Cutting Diet: Wavelength's Diet Progress - Page 2 - Bodybuilding.com Forums
Total Metabolism Forecaster: *Total Metabolism Forecaster Thread* - Bodybuilding.com Forums
Minimum Nutritional Requirements: Minimum Nutritional Requirements - Bodybuilding.com Forums


[size=+1]7 Acknowledgements[/size]

Thanks to everyone helping out in the "How to lose fat for Noobs" thread, especially:
iDrive, th3pwn3r, Djin, Robby99999, HerveDuchemin, AntoineDufour, toiletmoose, b_white, mafiosoromano, ZidaneValor, Silleli, reaperchild, Vietgoboi, IzzyT, Marine man, FloridaGator, lmzerger, S1FU, chickeneater, Sabouneh, spak, hankst, Teflon_Don, MaximumIn10sity, Kamaitachi, older2533, TheReductionist, NorCALSpeed, Dominikm, Bigwill21, mrpacijr, Westboarder, TheManofSteel, N03xcus3s, Emma-Leigh, and finally Alan Aragon for making the thread a sticky.

the wavelength sticky isnt something to gloss over, me saying that any lifting routine will do doesnt mean cardio is sufficient

Lifting:

1) Preserves/Grows Muscle
2) increases your basal metabolic rate over time(which in the case of cutting keeps it constant)
3) ensures weight losses are purely fat

cardio does none of those except maybe BMR

lifting ensures that at the end of the losses you have something to show off

see the problem is you cut and cut and cut and your BMR goes down requiring larger and larger deficits, if you arent growing muscle or preserving what you have you end up cutting MORE AND MORE MUSCLE!!!!!!

this isnt some joke or advertisement for lifting, im telling yall this because its 100% deadass, it goes for women too

skinny fat IS NOT A MYTH! lift and focus on progression and youll ensure you either are gaining muscle(newbie gains) or at the very least keep what you have

muscle is easily catabolized when you are in a deficit, without lifting this rate increases per lb of body weight lost...DONT SLEEP
 

The ADD

Old Master
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
49,322
Reputation
6,617
Daps
102,331
***Courtesy wave_length @ bodybuilding.com***

How to lose fat for Noobs - Part II - Bodybuilding.com Forums



the wavelength sticky isnt something to gloss over, me saying that any lifting routine will do doesnt mean cardio is sufficient

Lifting:

1) Preserves/Grows Muscle
2) increases your basal metabolic rate over time(which in the case of cutting keeps it constant)
3) ensures weight losses are purely fat

cardio does none of those except maybe BMR

lifting ensures that at the end of the losses you have something to show off

see the problem is you cut and cut and cut and your BMR goes down requiring larger and larger deficits, if you arent growing muscle or preserving what you have you end up cutting MORE AND MORE MUSCLE!!!!!!

this isnt some joke or advertisement for lifting, im telling yall this because its 100% deadass, it goes for women too

skinny fat IS NOT A MYTH! lift and focus on progression and youll ensure you either are gaining muscle(newbie gains) or at the very least keep what you have

muscle is easily catabolized when you are in a deficit, without lifting this rate increases per lb of body weight lost...DONT SLEEP

I'm reading now but to be clear I'm lifting 4 days a week: Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturday and Sunday
 

MMS

Intensity Integrity Intelligence
Staff member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
26,799
Reputation
3,863
Daps
31,977
Reppin
Auburn, AL
I'm reading now but to be clear I'm lifting 4 days a week: Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturday and Sunday

when did you start? what reps/weight did you start at(any particular exercise)? where are you now(relative that exercise)?
 

The ADD

Old Master
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
49,322
Reputation
6,617
Daps
102,331
when did you start? what reps/weight did you start at(any particular exercise)? where are you now(relative that exercise)?

I started August 9th with a PT. So Tuesday and Thursday I work with the PT. On Saturdays the PT would shoot me a workout I would complete on Saturday. I was running, Wednesdays, Friday and Sunday. I figured I wasn't lifting enough so I started going on Sunday's and doing a version of 5 x 5 Plan B.

All that said I haven't kept track of the weights and reps on Tuesday's and Thursdays. My logs for Saturday's and Sunday are at home but I make sure they increase 5 pounds each week.

There is no question that from August to now I've gained strength and to some degree visible muscle. Nothing crazy but that with the increased protein has caused changes.
 

MMS

Intensity Integrity Intelligence
Staff member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
26,799
Reputation
3,863
Daps
31,977
Reppin
Auburn, AL
I started August 9th with a PT. So Tuesday and Thursday I work with the PT. On Saturdays the PT would shoot me a workout I would complete on Saturday. I was running, Wednesdays, Friday and Sunday. I figured I wasn't lifting enough so I started going on Sunday's and doing a version of 5 x 5 Plan B.

All that said I haven't kept track of the weights and reps on Tuesday's and Thursdays. My logs for Saturday's and Sunday are at home but I make sure they increase 5 pounds each week.

There is no question that from August to now I've gained strength and to some degree visible muscle. Nothing crazy but that with the increased protein has caused changes.

:leon: thats what i wanted to hear :ahh:

now, my advice

cut cardio...make it 5lbs per workout

challenge yourself :rambo: when that fails go back to per week
 

K-Deini

GOAT
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
16,954
Reputation
3,383
Daps
41,976
can already tell there wont be much progress for this month. not being able to lift the past 2 weeks and having no appetite when i had shingles fukked this month up. back on the horse today tho, so maybe i can salvage these last two weeks in October. if i have to, i'll take the cut to December 1st instead of my original November 1st date.

creepin on a come up.
 

Jesus

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
16,965
Reputation
-2,123
Daps
24,272
Reppin
NZ
@MMSex just saw your profile pic...what are your stats? Looking nice...nh. :leon:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MMS

Intensity Integrity Intelligence
Staff member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
26,799
Reputation
3,863
Daps
31,977
Reppin
Auburn, AL
@MMSex just saw your profile pic...what are your stats? Looking nice...nh. :leon:

i appreciate ya :youngsabo: 155lb @ 5'9"

@MMSex whats a good site to get eca stack?

amazon still allows you to buy bronkaid

i would check your local pharmacies first, you dont need the "A" in EC stack tho

its just bronkaid and an over the counter caffeine pill(200mg)

take fish oil instead of aspirin to lower blood pressure, its been said prolonged aspirin use can develop stomach ulcers which isnt worth the hassle
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sad Bunny

they/them
Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
76,139
Reputation
3,011
Daps
169,632
@MMSex

Imma cop some vitamins

Im a beginner, which kind should I get?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MMS

Intensity Integrity Intelligence
Staff member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
26,799
Reputation
3,863
Daps
31,977
Reppin
Auburn, AL
@MMSex

Imma cop some vitamins

Im a beginner, which kind should I get?

any generic multi vitamin, i have winn dixie version of men's one a day

fish oil(1200mg)
zinc

^^^those are a must

extras:
potassium
b supplement
magnesium

anything else aint worth it :ehh:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top