New York Rappers Get Catapulted Into Greatness With The Smallest Sample Size

[smokeurobinson]

G unit by 2009?

Like I said I was being generous with 50. It was over by 07. G unit as a whole was over by 2006.

You missed my point. Gangsta rap wasn't dominate in the 00s. X fell off in 04 not 01

The backpack emotional rap dominated from 04-present.

Dude...u have no point because u are going off the topic..... What u are speaking on has nothing to do with the OP. I'm sitting here speaking on how 50 is a new york rapper who is not in the category of smallest sample size and your bringing up Kanye West who's from Chicago. None of what u said has anything to do with NY rappers who have an extensive catlogue.......50 started making noise in 1999.......By 2005, 50's 3rd album sold 5 mil. By 07, during this emo rap era u keep bringing up , 50 Cent had one of the hottest songs that summer with "I Get Money"........This is me pointing out how 50 had a catologue that was extensive in the 2000's because I'm sticking to the original topic.

Emo / Backpack rap dominance has nothing to do with me pointing out 50's extensive catologue. By your own words u say 50's run was over by 2007...Thats an 8 year run for 50 Cent......Thats not a small sample size at all.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

what viewpoints do you want me to change? lol. im probably the most unbiased poster in this thread. im neutral on the topic. meanwhile, youre the type of guy that thinks e-40 & mac dre are top 10 goats, which is on the other end of the extreme spectrum of the "new york or bust" idealists. actually youre worse, cuz at least theyre reppin the mecca.

Name a new York nikka with e-40s longetivity (88-2015). Name a New York nikka with e-40s longetivity and track record (see "Ballin Outta Control", "In A Major Way", "Hall of Game", "Element of Surprise", "Down & Dirty", "Game Related" etc). Name a New York nikka with e-40's longetivity, track record and a style that entirely belongs to them. That list of New York rappers is short... Only ones that come to mind are GFK, Kool Keith, MF DOOM, Redman (though he's from Jersey), Jay-Z and to an extent Kool G Rap tbr.

jada & juelz are popular all-around the map. are we gonna pretend that e-40 is? and im not saying that he went platinum in the bay alone, but the bay is known for having the most supportive rap fans ever. alot of guys that are considered random names were putting up the same numbers.

Is e-40 popular in the east coast? No. In the Midwest, south and the west coast? Yup. If that ain't "all around the map" then what is?

 

[Wacky D]

Is e-40 popular in the east coast? No. In the Midwest, south and the west coast? Yup. If that ain't "all around the map" then what is?

if hes not poppin on the east, then hes not poppin all across the map.

and lets be reality, if juelz, jada & e-40 each did a show in the south, e-40 is drawing the lowest gate.

The Master and Seventh Seal are sub par efforts and borderline trash compared to his work with Eric B.

You can stop reading. Hov has so many albums better than both of Rakim's solo albums.

that has more to do with the fact that rakim was old and had mileage by this point. coincidentally, cube suffered the same fate at that point in his career.

and if we're talking jay-z, his albums are worse than both of these guys, nor does he have a classic in the same realm of a death certificate or paid in full.

I put a question mark at the end, because I'm not sure of how many, because they all had lulls. Kanye HAS transitioned his career from an era he could barely survive, into one where he's an influence on most of the popular artists, while remaining relevant though.

That aside, LL didn't maintain a prolonged run as much as he reinvented and restarted his career multiple times. LL gets credit for every year from 85 til 2015, when that's not the truth. There's long gaps of irrelevance and inactivity in between his different runs. I give him that Madonna-type credit of reinventing and regaining relevance.

dont fall for the kanye rhetoric. kanye didnt transition from "an era he could barely survive". thats just propaganda breh. in actuality, kanye was clearly the industry & media's annointed chosen one before he even dropped an album. and i dont see how he couldnt survive during a time period where "thru the wire" was one of the hardest songs on radio.

back in LL's times when rap was more organic, you had to reinvent yourself because rap was ever-changing. you couldnt just sit around making the same ole chit like the "big stars" do today. thats why i said, longevity doesnt mean chit now and it hasnt for over a decade.

and nobody gives credit to LL for '85-'15. its more like '84-02 at best. '04 if generous.

 

[Still Benefited]

what viewpoints do you want me to change? lol. im probably the most unbiased poster in this thread. im neutral on the topic. meanwhile, youre the type of guy that thinks e-40 & mac dre are top 10 goats, which is on the other end of the extreme spectrum of the "new york or bust" idealists. actually youre worse, cuz at least theyre reppin the mecca.

street-based yes. ruff ryders & rocafella were geared towards the streets. just because some of the artists acquired mainstream bases, it doesnt mean that they werent street-based. ask yourself, since when did you see anybody from those labels aside from jay-z & dmx getting high ratings in mag reviews or being paraded around by industry & media outlets? they werent. they were moreso peoples champions. hell, EVEN DMX never got his proper amount of just due.

and bad boy was half-street/half-party. puffy signed the lox AFTER they made their name. he didnt sign them out of nowhere breh.

jada & juelz are popular all-around the map. are we gonna pretend that e-40 is? and im not saying that he went platinum in the bay alone, but the bay is known for having the most supportive rap fans ever. alot of guys that are considered random names were putting up the same numbers.

lol @ andre 3000 being a cultural icon. man youve been posting on here way too long.

"At least theyre reppin the mecca"? So in fact you admit you and many others ARE giving extra credit to artist either consciously or subconsciously because they are from the "mecca".

NY aint my mecca,or the mecca to anybody that has its own hiphop scene,not in the sense that you would be more impressed or give extra credit because a nikka is from there....I can see given extra credit to pioneers from NY,but not no damn Jada or Juelz cuz they from NY?

And I don't know what ratings Lox or Juelz was getting,my point is Juelz was signed to a label that had the streets behind them,that was known for producing quality music,Juelz benefited from that,is Beanie Sigel going gold if he's not Jays protégé and on Rocafella?Is Freeway even heard of? And Lox was signed to the biggest label at the time in Badboy,then again on Ruff Ryders,they made a name for themselves to be heard by Mary J Blige and then Puff,but lets not act like they made themselves known across the map simply by they own hand and hardwork....This aint no 40 or Master P story,its a nikkas who had a lot of help story

And yes E40 is known all around the map,not sure why you wont accept this even after today when the hits just keep coming?Id almost say you should get less credit if your from the "mecca" during certain periods....Its almost safe to say you should more credit being from NY today when theres a generation who wasn't raised on the Source,and could give 0 fukks about NY at all and can completely bypass any and every rapper that comes out of NY if they wanted to

And btw I know your going to bring up aaalll the people you know who say otherwise,but I'm 100 percent more confident more people know E40 than Juelz Santanna.


Edit-and I was talking about Mac Dre not Andre 3000 lol

 

[T.H.E. Goat]

I agree that every old rapper from the 90s shouldn't be automatically considered a legend but I disagree with the idea that you need a bunch of albums to be a legend.Quality over quantity. You don't need 10 albums in 20 years to be a legend.

If you made classic music that impacted the culture heavily, you have the right to be considered a legend. Lauryn Hill is a legend, Biggie is a legend. Doesn't matter if they have a smaller discography, their music made more impact than most of these rappers that are still in the game 20 years later.

Facts

 

[Art Barr]

The Master and Seventh Seal are sub par efforts and borderline trash compared to his work with Eric B.

You can stop reading. Hov has so many albums better than both of Rakim's solo albums.

Rakim rhymes circles around jayz current skill set on seventh seal.
Seventh seal on has two bad moments on it and I would enjoy reading your review.
So, you can clarify why you said this bullshyt.
Let's read your review of the album.


Art Barr

 

[OnlyInCalifornia]

@Art Barr serious question, if your boy Juice was from NYC instead of Chicago do you think he would have got the attention he deserved?

Cuz I see Papoose lauded as a lyrical legend in New York for re-doing a song that had already been done and coming up with cheap punch lines on mixtapes.....Juice would crush Pap battling....

 

[Art Barr]

Name a new York nikka with e-40s longetivity (88-2015). Name a New York nikka with e-40s longetivity and track record (see "Ballin Outta Control", "In A Major Way", "Hall of Game", "Element of Surprise", "Down & Dirty", "Game Related" etc). Name a New York nikka with e-40's longetivity, track record and a style that entirely belongs to them. That list of New York rappers is short... Only ones that come to mind are GFK, Kool Keith, MF DOOM, Redman (though he's from Jersey), Jay-Z and to an extent Kool G Rap tbr.



Is e-40 popular in the east coast? No. In the Midwest, south and the west coast? Yup. If that ain't "all around the map" then what is?

E40 does not rap well,...
So, why do you keep bringing up e40.
Plus, he is a guy the Mecca would not embrace.
If you need why that is, you need to re-eval the culture if hip hop.
Then, question the execs who distributed e40 for a return..uet, never did any actual critical knowledge culturally centered around skills.
Plus, real talk,...e40 improved after twenty years of work.
Which we all know is a ghostwriter and not e40 rhyming at all on his own.
So, why are you continually using a pass system.
Which wleasily shows you are violating the culture and the Mecca.
See, the problem is you dudes from other cities have Mecca envy.
The execs have Mecca envy.
The fans have Mecca envy.
Wack sellout rappers have Mecca envy.
Which all comes because these people know they are faking jax culturally.
Yet, want to create a payola or capital based pass system to perpetrate demeaning the culture and get away with it.

Every person complaining about the Mecca has some sellout property to them and it can and has or will be exposed.

It is all Mecca envy.
You never here real ras roots reggae artist criticize Jamaica.
Yet, in rap you hear all these wack non cultural artist wbk are culturally wack and devoid of culture belly ache'n.
Plus, they are never skilled enough.
to even have ever resonated outside of payola or marketing, kn a cultural level and that is because they are cultural sellouts.

This shyt about the culture first.
Regardless how many puff jiggy movement copying in some way based label or artist try to use capital to sway that.
When it is not about the culture, like the industry wants.
There won't be anymore rap and we are heading right into the death of rap and hip hop like it was 1984 all over again.
Then, it won't be anyway to help anyone impoverished ever again.

So, keep wishing on hiphop'a downfall.
All because in the end.
You are the uncultured goofs, who will be hurt the most when it does not exist.
As you will have nuffin to inspire and if the degradation if rap kills hip hop.
You will be lost, with NO GET BACK AT ALL, WHATSOEVER.

So, I hope you pass making phonies continue with the bullshyt.
As, you are doing nuffin but hurting yourself.



Art Barr

 

[Wacky D]

"At least theyre reppin the mecca"? So in fact you admit you and many others ARE giving extra credit to artist either consciously or subconsciously because they are from the "mecca".

NY aint my mecca,or the mecca to anybody that has its own hiphop scene,not in the sense that you would be more impressed or give extra credit because a nikka is from there....I can see given extra credit to pioneers from NY,but not no damn Jada or Juelz cuz they from NY?

And I don't know what ratings Lox or Juelz was getting,my point is Juelz was signed to a label that had the streets behind them,that was known for producing quality music,Juelz benefited from that,is Beanie Sigel going gold if he's not Jays protégé and on Rocafella?Is Freeway even heard of? And Lox was signed to the biggest label at the time in Badboy,then again on Ruff Ryders,they made a name for themselves to be heard by Mary J Blige and then Puff,but lets not act like they made themselves known across the map simply by they own hand and hardwork....This aint no 40 or Master P story,its a nikkas who had a lot of help story

And yes E40 is known all around the map,not sure why you wont accept this even after today when the hits just keep coming?Id almost say you should get less credit if your from the "mecca" during certain periods....Its almost safe to say you should more credit being from NY today when theres a generation who wasn't raised on the Source,and could give 0 fukks about NY at all and can completely bypass any and every rapper that comes out of NY if they wanted to

And btw I know your going to bring up aaalll the people you know who say otherwise,but I'm 100 percent more confident more people know E40 than Juelz Santanna.


Edit-and I was talking about Mac Dre not Andre 3000 lol

youre missing my point with the first paragraph. cmon breh.

lol @ mac dre being a cultural icon. nobody knows that bul.

more people knowing e-40 than juelz santana? maybe in 2015 because of the big sean feature. and im being generous there, because im completely oblivious to whats hot in the poppy-rap realm at this point. i completely ignore dudes like big sean, tyga, etc to know the impact of their music. just saying thats the only chance of your statement being accurate.

everybody has help. e-40 at one point had lil jon pushing him and still failed to shake the niche stench. you think if e-40 was signed to bad boy, that he wouldve had a big ole career? puff couldnt even get 8ball & mjg to the next level and theyre higher on the totem pole than 40.

and what are these e-40 hits that "keep on coming" that youre referring to? are you talking about him jumping on other people's records?

and im not feeling the rocafella comments at all, seeing that the roc wasnt poppin like that until beanie siegal got there. the idea that he popped because of the roc is revisionist history at its finest. and as far as the freeway comment goes, i take it you have no idea how many rappers from philly were getting scooped up at that time, and how many people turned down rocafella contracts. rocafella wasnt doing these guys any favors with those contracts.

 

[mobbinfms]

jada & juelz are popular all-around the map. are we gonna pretend that e-40 is? and im not saying that he went platinum in the bay alone, but the bay is known for having the most supportive rap fans ever. alot of guys that are considered random names were putting up the same numbers.

I think that by the time Jada and Juelz got hot (2000-2001 for Jada and 2003 for Juelz) regionalism had really subsided in hip hop. Meanwhile, E-40 was (unfairly) thought of as wack by the East in the 90s (during his peak). That stuck with him in the 2000s. Then he was the mainstream face of hyphy. Which was again dismissed. Nonetheless, the hits kept coming
I think its unfair, but you are right that Jada and Juelz were more popular across the map.
The Bay had far less platinum artists than you would think.
Short went platinum 6 times
Let me say that again, Short went platinum six times
The Luniz went platinum
Spice One never went platinum.
40 went platinum once I think

Hammer went platinum but he don't count. I think that's it. I could be forgetting somebody

 

[Art Barr]

@Art Barr serious question, if your boy Juice was from NYC instead of Chicago do you think he would have got the attention he deserved?

Cuz I see Papoose lauded as a lyrical legend in New York for re-doing a song that had already been done and coming up with cheap punch lines on mixtapes.....Juice would crush Pap battling....

Juice was a king of Cali and the Midwest.
So, I just think we and then later he never got to really just cruise ny as much as the other places.
So, they never had that opportunity to see in a grassroots way.
That juice was better than anyone not in the top five and had top five potential as an artist if he would have permeated the mainstream.
Which is all because we never secured the marketing or distribution monies to do so.
Juice was light year better than pap in every category.
Plus, I am not sure if pap is actually really any good oft the head.
Including pap could be id'd as a cultural artist.
So, ju would have never had any issue with pap culturally to precipitate a battle.
Not to mention, pap had never made any real treadway like that.
When me and ju were still running together.
To ever come up as topic because pap had not had big exposure past g rap by then.
On roots of evil pap did not stand out enough to create a discussion the way the feature guys on take'em to war got.
As a matter of fact the guys on take'em to war were better.
Past that,...plus pap being offkey.
In that era as well, I was trying to get everyone to see that we had to listen to mainstream wack rap to not get lost in the shuffle to the mainstream consumer.
While we tried to get a distribution deal.
So, listening to fringe rappers or rappers not wholeheartedly skilled ju was not doing either.
So, back then at that time.
I am not sure if ju assimilated to widespread listening of the full gamut of wackness I had to start listening to.
To stay adept at where the rap industry was going.
Ju did not tolerate a lot of rappers who were wack and I was not around to know his opinion of pap.
To this day, I don't think anyone can see ju on the levels that emcee'n is about.
I know so and as more time passes and I never hear anyone on that level in every aspect of emcee'n..
It just reaffirms it more everyday.
I am kinda glad ju did not resonate.
All because ju never needed anymore of his style b*stardized.
after the wack battle crowd all tried to be him in every wack biter way possible.
To even his ability to Stay focused.
When another emcee was rapping and being animated.
past the point of staying focused on your task for most people, with a distraction present.

So, I just kinda see it as,...
If you do your homework you find out about juice.
If you don't,... you don't know the highest level of emcee'n in every aspect.

That is why I just know who and what I am.
I don't care about what people who don't know have to say because they don't matter.
They are people speaking and don't fully know.
Now it is a tragedy that ju, pretty much whipped ass universlly and gets ignored.
Yet, if people really say they can emcee.
Then, they should know juice.
If, they don't know who ju is,...then, I know they are not adept at every level of emcee'n.


Art Barr

 

[mobbinfms]

Jay has a classic discography save 2 maybe 3 projects.... That is tough to do

Rakim only has two great albums..

Paid in Full
Follow the Leader
Let the Rhythm Hit Em
All classics

but he's only got 2 great albums which both aren't 100% solo because Eric B is also featured on the album... His solo albums are sub par

Point me to one Eric B verse then...

Pac raised in LA

Pac was raised in NY until the age of 14-15 and then Baltimore.
He came to Marin City which is in the Bay Area at 17.

wish we had 3 classic Rakim solos

We do

Like last week someone in here tried to tell me Rakim was better than Cube

I'm like.. nikka in what world

Cube is pound for pound are more consistent master of ceremonies than Ra and dropped better projects.

Something gross happened to Ra after he and Eric B split... He's never been the same since.

He was as good as he's ever been on The 18th Letter...the beats weren't all there though
I have no issue with someone putting Cube over Rakim though...they are 4 and 5 on my list. Cube at 4 and Rakim at 5.

 

[mobbinfms]

Which we all know is a ghostwriter and not e40 rhyming at all on his own.

I'm hoping you don't have receipts for this
First Short...now 40
It's like my childhood was one big lie

 

[Still Benefited]

Name a new York nikka with e-40s longetivity (88-2015). Name a New York nikka with e-40s longetivity and track record (see "Ballin Outta Control", "In A Major Way", "Hall of Game", "Element of Surprise", "Down & Dirty", "Game Related" etc). Name a New York nikka with e-40's longetivity, track record and a style that entirely belongs to them. That list of New York rappers is short... Only ones that come to mind are GFK, Kool Keith, MF DOOM, Redman (though he's from Jersey), Jay-Z and to an extent Kool G Rap tbr.



Is e-40 popular in the east coast? No. In the Midwest, south and the west coast? Yup. If that ain't "all around the map" then what is?

And in terms of relevancy and longevity E40 has done more with less,you cant prop up LL but not 40 in that regard? Id argue in terms of musical relevancy 40 is even more relevant than JayZ right now,if you take out the fact Jayzs name alone is iconic....but when it comes to that sound,when it comes to that subject matter and game spitting


114 million views



500K views in a week?


5million views and every rapper in the game in the video?including Juelz being asked if he's lazy



cant forget this one,has beyonce ever been inspired by Jays music?



bonus






nikkas from Canada stealing verses from "local bay legends",hiphops favorite son Kendrick shouting out 40 and using his adlibs...Jeezy with B-Legit in his top 5 and shouting out E-40 and The Click on his new record.

Whats a mecca to a oasis

 

[Art Barr]

Dude...u have no point because u are going off the topic..... What u are speaking on has nothing to do with the OP. I'm sitting here speaking on how 50 is a new york rapper who is not in the category of smallest sample size and your bringing up Kanye West who's from Chicago. None of what u said has anything to do with NY rappers who have an extensive catlogue.......50 started making noise in 1999.......By 2005, 50's 3rd album sold 5 mil. By 07, during this emo rap era u keep bringing up , 50 Cent had one of the hottest songs that summer with "I Get Money"........This is me pointing out how 50 had a catologue that was extensive in the 2000's because I'm sticking to the original topic.

Emo / Backpack rap dominance has nothing to do with me pointing out 50's extensive catologue. By your own words u say 50's run was over by 2007...Thats an 8 year run for 50 Cent......Thats not a small sample size at all.

Fiddy : I am the underground king and I ain't been crowned

That shyt is still real talk,...
To this day no one made better mixtapes.
Yes, there are guys with unheralded mix tape discogs.
Yet, the mix tape realm is judged by fiddy's rubrick all because he made the mix tape format all these guys use.
So, any rapper making a mix tape is on fiddy's dikk.
Plus, needed payola to do what fiddy did from a grassroots level.

That is why I did not make mixtapes cause I won't be a prisoner to the semantics.
that are there from fiddy creating mixtapes.
If you make mixtapes you are saying you are a fiddy Stan.
As the style of mix tape guys make is fiddy, period.
So, guys critical of fiddy are sounding stoopid, if they have a mixtape.

You are on fiddy's dikk if you made a mix tape.

You can deny it, but it is what it is.


Art Barr