New York Rappers Get Catapulted Into Greatness With The Smallest Sample Size

[intilectual recipricol]

It doesn't take away from Andre's verses. He has some of the greatest verses of all time. But "spitting" is different when its one verse on a song as opposed to multiple verses. It's easier.

Writing 1 verse to a song with a concept is different from fleshing out the concept over 3 or 4 verses. It's a lot easier to write that 1 verse and kill it than to build a song. Jadakiss and Bun B built the same sort of rep 1 verse at a time. Now take that same idea and make it 16 solo songs with multiple verses instead of 16 songs with 1 or 1/2 verses, like Andre 3000.

It's A LOT tougher to write multiple verses on a song as opposed to just one. Imagine if Jay Z and Biggie were in a duo and could consolidate all their crazy bars from songs into single verses. They'd have the same crazy average of hot verses as Andre. Biggie has done the single verse thing on songs and killed it plenty of times.(Notorious Thugs, Mo Money Mo Problems, etc)

But Andre hasn't had to face the heat of creating an entire rap album by himself, without the crutch of having a great rap partner to carry half of the workload.

It just comes down to Andre being untested in ways that other great rappers have been. He gets the benefit of being as great as solo artists while having done half as much.

And I know this is hair splitting, but that's what you do when you're talking top 10.

It's harder to do a group album because you have to run your shyt by someone else and make it vibe, then you have to share creative input and go back and forth... that's why groups break up, not come together.

Let's just judge them on the actual work they did, not some hypothetical work that might have been done. When you judge them by their work then hardly anyone is seeing 3000. Period. When you start adding fantasy shyt then who knows... Waka flock has more solo joints so I guess Waka flock is better

 

[spliz]

Any ny nikka that maks noise is the goat to them...I remember they try to put 50 as one

Nowhere in NY have I seen nikkas say Uncle Murda. Maino. Or especially MIMs was some type of great artists. U nikkas just make up shyt. Prolly never even stepped foot here.

 

[CM_Burns]

Idk about this longevity argument. You could say Jays had longevity the last 6 years, by releasing goofball songs specifically tailored to teenage white girls.

To say Empire State of Mind and Holy Grail increase his GOATness because they kept him "relevant" seems stupid.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Just came to say Big L first album was a classic.

That other shyt I just chalk it up as some usual a NY nikka came to my town and ran a train on my sister and aunt. Continue big homie.

Big L's first album was a weedplate. fukk outta here.

 

[↓R↑LYB]

Nowhere in NY have I seen nikkas say Uncle Murda. Maino. Or especially MIMs was some type of great artists. U nikkas just make up shyt. Prolly never even stepped foot here.

This. Most these dudes never even flown over the state of NY talking about NY hip-hop

 

[loyola llothta]

Again, everybody was hyping 50 as the greatest thing ever, not just on the east coast. I moved to Cincinnati in 2001 and 50 was huge there too.

Nobody was saying he was goat but yall


Lil wayne run was great too but ny didnt feel like he was good enough to be notice as one of the goat

Yall dj's have block/& refuse to play certain hot artist

 

[Pier7]

Lil wayne run was great too but ny didnt feel like he was good enough to be notice as one of the goat

Cmon son you know thats a lie.

Matta fact one of the reasons why Wayne got so big was cause NY loved him, embraced him and propelled him beyond the southern market.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

It's like the people that rate them have no respect for longevity and body of work.. I've seen ONE good project place rappers into the conversation of all time greats...

Now I'm aware that things like untimely death o prison can make you try to forecast what they COULD have been and give them honorable mentions.. But this sh1t has gone too far imo..

Big L-No classic albums, 1 good album and a handful of punch line heavy features..

Big Pun-1 Classic album and 1 weed plate. That's it. And dudes have the nerve to say he would be the GOAT if he wasn't Latino.

Slick Rick-1 Classic album. 4 total retail releases in almost 30 years.

Jadakiss-Zero classics. Bad hairline.

Notorious B.I.G.- 2 classic albums. The greatest argument for a small body of work elite emcee (top 10 is fair). But you can't be the greatest EVER if you haven't succeeded through multiple eras...

Lauryn Hill- From Jersey but same sh1t. 1 Classic group album and 1 Classic Soul album where she only raps on 50% of the songs. Hasn't done sh1t for almost 20 years.

Mos Def- 1 regional classic and an overrated group album. Moved to Africa to duck child support. No grind.

GZA- Classic Swords and a handful of great Wu Tang verses.

Big Daddy Kane- Reign on the top was shorter than leps. Debut classic, really good follow up. Hasn't charted in 20 years.

I actually think Mos Def's work is underrated. Blackstar is a borderline classic and acknowledged as such. BOBS is well-respected too.

But I think The New Danger was dope as fukk...I know that's a minority opinion. Most fans couldn't vibe with it but I liked it.

And The Ecstatic was also really good but flew under the radar. I know Mos Def fans who didn't even know that album came out. I guess they gave up on him after Tru3 Magic, which was a universal weedplate.

 

[MIAlien]

It's harder to do a group album because you have to run your shyt by someone else and make it vibe, then you have to share creative input and go back and forth... that's why groups break up, not come together.

Let's just judge them on the actual work they did, not some hypothetical work that might have been done. When you judge them by their work then hardly anyone is seeing 3000. Period. When you start adding fantasy shyt then who knows... Waka flock has more solo joints so I guess Waka flock is better

I'm not judging fantasy things. I'm judging what I see/hear. It's much tougher to create an entire album by yourself and not have a partner to lean on to do half the work on the song/album. Like I said, if Jay Z, Nas, Eminem, or Biggie could've gone 1 verse at a time, they'd be looked at as having no weak verses ever too.

Andre mostly dropped 1 verse per song and has not put together enough solo work to be top 10. It gives him an advantage over rappers that have accomplished more as solo artists. And that's not absolute. But against the other ATGs, that matters. This is like saying a closing pitcher, even if its Mariano, is better than ATG starting pitchers. He's faced 1/3 as many batters and hasn't had to throw offspeed pitches, set up hitters, or face batters multiple times per game. Andre got to throw straight heat one time per song, instead of spreading it out over a song.

And he's had ample opportunities to drop solo albums and take on that challenge. Instead, he gave us his version of a Prince album and walked away.

And being in a group is easier when it comes to writing. It's not easier to write a full song than it is 16 bars.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

For the most part I agree with the OP. What's confusing about all that is that a lot of NY artists who actually do have big catalogues and a strong track record (see Redman and Kool Keith, even GFK and MF DOOM to an extent) get omitted from the majority of top 10s.

Part of it though is that the independent grind that produced so many prolific artists in the south/west coast was absent in NY. A lot of NY rappers all but literally stopped rapping as soon as they got dropped from a label or they got shelved. West Coast (particularly Bay Area) and Southern artists sometimes had three or four retail albums out BEFORE a label picked them up and circulated their music nationwide.

Now, a lot of southern and Bay Area rappers were simply trying to hustle and increase their output for the sake of having something new for sale (see No Limit) but the great artists who cropped up were part of a culture where content creation was much more routine than it was in NY. Artists like Spice 1, E-40, Scarface, UGK, Too Short, etc. have much more business being on a top 10 list based on track record alone than a lot of the 1 album wonders that get propped up by east coast media.

 

[GrindtooFilthy]

don't give a fukk what op says Big L and mos def will forever remain in my top 5 DOA

 

[ISO]

Now y'all wear nike boots and have big beards...and say jawn...and wear bright colors.
Like people from PHILLY OR DC.

No we don't

Everybody says jawn nowadays too

 

[intilectual recipricol]

I'm not judging fantasy things. I'm judging what I see/hear. It's much tougher to create an entire album by yourself and not have a partner to lean on to do half the work on the song/album. Like I said, if Jay Z, Nas, Eminem, or Biggie could've gone 1 verse at a time, they'd be looked at as having no weak verses ever too.

Andre mostly dropped 1 verse per song and has not put together enough solo work to be top 10. It gives him an advantage over rappers that have accomplished more as solo artists. And that's not absolute. But against the other ATGs, that matters. This is like saying a closing pitcher, even if its Mariano, is better than ATG starting pitchers. He's faced 1/3 as many batters and hasn't had to throw offspeed pitches, set up hitters, or face batters multiple times per game. Andre got to throw straight heat one time per song, instead of spreading it out over a song.

And he's had ample opportunities to drop solo albums and take on that challenge. Instead, he gave us his version of a Prince album and walked away.

And being in a group is easier when it comes to writing. It's not easier to write a full song than it is 16 bars.

You're not making sense. I thought you agreed to discuss actual work then you went back to discussing fantasy shyt. My point is line up 3000's "Sorry" verse against the next man's verse and decide who's is better.

We're judging their rapping, no? And like I said, it's easier doing solo joints because you have full control over the project. Group albums take coordination and teamwork. Group albums are much harder so Andre should get more credit than these solo slackers.

 

[big bun]

Add Fab to that list. 95% of his shyt , but NY stay trying to prop his ass up.

 

[spliz]

It's harder to do a group album because you have to run your shyt by someone else and make it vibe, then you have to share creative input and go back and forth... that's why groups break up, not come together.

Let's just judge them on the actual work they did, not some hypothetical work that might have been done. When you judge them by their work then hardly anyone is seeing 3000. Period. When you start adding fantasy shyt then who knows... Waka flock has more solo joints so I guess Waka flock is better

No. Ur wrong. It's harder to do a solo album. I used to be in a group. I know the difference.