What "intangible" IT factor is J. Cole missing that Drake seems to have?

[1ncognegro]

All the school kids are so sick of books and learning
They dont read anymore, they don't even read anymore
They just wanna be like all the rappers that I can't stand
nikkas we don't need anymore
All the nikkas we don't need anymore
And all the cops are still hanging out at the doughnut shops
Talking about how the weathers changing
The ice is melting as if the world is ending

Drake Heat of the Moment first verse. He's so good. The GOAT

 

[onelastdeath]

You miss the point 300%

In todays time being an activist on mic sells more

Example

Kdot and cole

They're not selling more than him though. Being an "activist" and being "real" are not the same thing. At all. You think Drake not talking about ANY societal issues is an accident. On his albums? NEVER. That's not even being an "activist" its being real, straightforward. The fact that talking about issues in your own community which you borrow customs, slang, and traditions from to make $$, is now being labeled as "activism" tells me all i need to know cac :blackumad:

And u say "uncomfortable sht"?
nikka u know how many nikkaz complain that "Marvins room" is uncomfortable to listen to
Why?

I'm not talking about making nikkas feel uncomfortable with bytches. We can go back to "Song Cry" and talk about how it had nikkas in they feelings. Its not even that. I'm talking about calling people out. Calling out the bullshyt that goes on. The injustice. The inequality. It doesn't have to be his main niche. But the fact that its not even apart of his artistic identity at all is hazardous for rap. Because Rap being a platform for black issues IS THE MAIN fukkING POINT OF RAP. Drake is unless it comes to the parts of the lifestyle he can copy and imitate. nikka will where his hat backwards and say nikka 500 times but will NEVER address real shyt on his projects. EVER. No mentioning of anything with Eric Garner, no mentioning of ANYTHING with Mike Brown, and the guy at the helm needs to do shyt like that.

Because it exposes a trait and a thought in nikkaz that happens when we in our feeling bout an ex breh..
Again ur problem is u want every rapper to be on some activist sht with this rap sht...one of the reasons a Drake is so popular is because his music treats itself like personal therapy, in that he's not tryna save the world but rather voice his struggles, his ambitions and the demons of his personal life
And people can relate to that

That in itself is the problem. Addressing shyt in your community isn't "activism" its honesty. Drake is black when it's beneficial. That's it. His music is so popular because he doesn't have that layer of worldly realness. He ain't a rebel. And that's good for $$ but bad for rap.

And what do u mean that he's misrepresenting a culture..
Where is Drake perpetuating a lifestyle that is foreign to him?

Everything he does. Calling bytches "bytches", saying nikka a million times, talking about drugs, and "bodies" and all this other shyt, when in fact you're from suburbia. You had a Bar Mitsvah my nikka. You ain't never struggled a day in your life, yet you got this nikka promoting bullshyt to black youth. At least when Jay or Nas did the shyt, it was what THEY EXPERIENCED as black youths in America, so it came from a pure place. Dude runs around saying nikka without even knowing how nikkas feel or addressing shyt that nikkas go through. Drake gives white people license to say that shyt.

Your whole essay is basically filled with claims with nothing to back it up..as if im supposed to just accept that as fact.
True artistry is doing what u wanna do without lettting the people change you
Drake represents this because despite all the jokes bout him being soft, or too rich to claim "started from the bottom" or "he needs to stop singing"

Drake continues to make the music thats true to him even if it earns him ridicule or "drake type of jokes"

You worried about "Drake Jokes" nikka how old is you? That nikka is worth 50 mil, fukk he care about some "Drake jokes" you sound like a kid B. You sound like you're 13

True artistry is being true. Nothing more. Drake isn't true. He's created.

 

[JYoung24]

Cole is a talented spitter but is aiming for a everyman vibe with his music. It's personal and helps him build his own fanbase. The sound and style really came together for Forest Hill

But Drake just makes better music. shyt you can vibe to, shyt you can party to, shyt that makes you sit back in reflect, shyt that you can bump in the whip. Cole's music can only be enjoyed in one way in that manner. He never been the dude where his shyt bumpin in the club or ya whip He's a rappin ass rapper. That's not a bad thing but it narrows his appeal.

Drake does not make better music

 

[OneManGang]

You miss the point 300%



They're not selling more than him though. Being an "activist" and being "real" are not the same thing. At all. You think Drake not talking about ANY societal issues is an accident. On his albums? NEVER. That's not even being an "activist" its being real, straightforward. The fact that talking about issues in your own community which you borrow customs, slang, and traditions from to make $$, is now being labeled as "activism" tells me all i need to know cac :blackumad:



I'm not talking about making nikkas feel uncomfortable with bytches. We can go back to "Song Cry" and talk about how it had nikkas in they feelings. Its not even that. I'm talking about calling people out. Calling out the bullshyt that goes on. The injustice. The inequality. It doesn't have to be his main niche. But the fact that its not even apart of his artistic identity at all is hazardous for rap. Drake is unless it comes to the parts of the lifestyle he can copy and imitate. nikka will where his hat backwards and say nikka 500 times but will NEVER address real shyt on his projects. EVER. No mentioning of anything with Eric Garner, no mentioning of ANYTHING with Mike Brown, and the guy at the helm needs to do shyt like that.




That in itself is the problem. Addressing shyt in your community isn't "activism" its honesty. Drake is black when it's beneficial. That's it. His music is so popular because he doesn't have that layer of worldly realness. He ain't a rebel. And that's good for $$ but bad for rap.



Everything he does. Calling bytches "bytches", saying nikka a million times, talking about drugs, and "bodies" and all this other shyt, when in fact you're from suburbia. You had a Bar Mitsvah my nikka. You ain't never struggled a day in your life, yet you got this nikka promoting bullshyt to black youth. At least when Jay or Nas did the shyt, it was what THEY EXPERIENCED as black youths in America, so it came from a pure place. Dude runs around saying nikka without even knowing how nikkas feel or addressing shyt that nikkas go through. Drake gives white people license to say that shyt.



You worried about "Drake Jokes" nikka how old is you? That nikka is worth 50 mil, fukk he care about some "Drake jokes" you sound like a kid B. You sound like you're 13

True artistry is being true. Nothing more. Drake isn't true. He's created.

Kanye grew up more privileged than most did as well, but you was just bigging him up in the last post. Drake talks about having being back and forth between Memphis and Toronto and struggling with his pops being poor but him being comfortable. You make it seem like he never seen the other side. I'd say Kanye and Drizzy grew up about equally. Drake was not rich growing up, but he def wasn't struggling. Cole didn't struggle either. HE was middle class as well. I'd even say Drake growing up with his dad in Memphis showed him more of that struggle than Cole ever saw. Cole went to St Johns in the middle of Jew land in Queens and graduated cum laude after getting a scholarship there. None of this is a bad thing but lets stop trying to make Drake seem like white America's poster child to big up these other dudes.

As far as saying nikka, come on fam....we gonna have double standards about that word? Cole loves that word too. All rappers do. Just because he identifies as Jewish, he can't say nikka? He is half black, just like Cole. And I ain't never heard Drake rap about drugs? Maybe lean, but even that is iffy. He smokes weed but who doesn't? I know Cole does, I know Kanye does. Kendrick even mad songs about weed, but then backtracked and said he can't fukk with it like that.

You just don;t like Drake. That's cool, but you manufacturing all this other stuff. And I'm not even coming at you my nikka, this is my opinion in response to your opinion.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

nikka what? Drake ain't no goddamn better rapper than Cole. Off pure lyrical ability? and flow?

Drake hasn't said anything cold in years. Cole raps circles around Drake, so does Kendrick. Drake just has a bigger appeal, better production, and he's more versatile. But as far as pure rap? Drake's lower echelon.

I love it when people try to make it seem like Drizzy is some lyrical messiah, when his tracks show otherwise Drake is an average rapper. And an above average artist. Isn't the once in a generation artist that nikkas make him out to be. The only once in a generation artist we've seen with the new nikkas is Kendrick. You can make another Drake. Can't make another Kendrick.

Drake's stans keep him hot though. Even though he lacks classic music, he has enough people cosigning his garbage, that EVENTUALLY. people will be convinced its hot.

Yeah this is an outright lie

nikkas stay quoting his ENTIRE songs

 

[onelastdeath]

Kanye grew up more privileged than most did as well, but you was just bigging him up in the last post. Drake talks about having being back and forth between Memphis and Toronto and struggling with his pops being poor but him being comfortable. You make it seem like he never seen the other side. I'd say Kanye and Drizzy grew up about equally. Drake was not rich growing up, but he def wasn't struggling. Cole didn't struggle either. HE was middle class as well. I'd even say Drake growing up with his dad in Memphis showed him more of that struggle than Cole ever saw. Cole went to St Johns in the middle of Jew land in Queens and graduated cum laude after getting a scholarship there. None of this is a bad thing but lets stop trying to make Drake seem like white America's poster child to big up these other dudes.

As far as saying nikka, come on fam....we gonna have double standards about that word? Cole loves that word too. All rappers do. Just because he identifies as Jewish, he can't say nikka? He is half black, just like Cole. And I ain't never heard Drake rap about drugs? Maybe lean, but even that is iffy. He smokes weed but who doesn't? I know Cole does, I know Kanye does. Kendrick even mad songs about weed, but then backtracked and said he can't fukk with it like that.

You just don;t like Drake. That's cool, but you manufacturing all this other stuff. And I'm not even coming at you my nikka, this is my opinion in response to your opinion.

My nikka. I don't speak nothing but facts. I'm telling you PERSONALLY. that I was a bigger Drake stan than anyone could ever hope to be. I've met him thrice, and I know the history. I'm not talking bullshyt. Ye' grew up black in America. Not in the burbs, "Middle Class" in America might as well be poor. Drake grew up in Forest Hill Toronto. That's a rich Jew neighborhood. nikka complained more about "not seeing his dad" than seeing him. How could you say that a middle class black man in America, grew up the same as a biracial jew in Forest Hill Toronto. Cole's mama was on drugs, his father wasn't around either, add to the fact that he got a ACADEMIC scholarship, nikka didnt' fukking get a free ride for nothing. Drake is White America's poster child.

And yes, because he identifies as Jewish he can't say nikka. I don't know why that's so hard for nikkas to understand. Dude is a Jew. Hangs around those type of white folks who thinks its cool to say nikka. And he says that shyt excessively. To the point where pop culture takes it as something different. Which goes back to cultural misrepresentation. "nikka" isn't the same thing as "homie", but listening to Drake, you'd think it is. I don't call my white friends "my nikkas", its not the same thing. So yes, since he identifies as Jewish, he can't say nikka.

Drake is white America's dream. An appropriating half-white jew that is at the helm of black music. Who doesn't shed light on black issues but uses black slang. That gives white kids WHO GREW UP LIKE HIM in SUBURBS, license to say the shyt. And they got you nikkas cosigning that shyt. Defending that shyt. Somewhere down the line you guys are gonna cosign a white artist saying nikka. and say "cmon fam we gonna have double standards about that word?" Because it starts with this. Same thing that happened to Nicki, will happen to Drizzy. He's a trial run. They tested the waters with Nicki, and the second Iggy showed up doing the SAME shyt, in a white persons body, they shunned Nicki out. Drake, He's the guy they'll use to see how far they can dilute the quality. And then they'll swoop in and big up and white artist, and then that'll be rap FINISHED. Rap is one of the last black artforms thats still around. nikkas who pretend they can't see shyt will be the down fall of it. This indifference toward real shyt and fake shyt, is the problem.

 

[OneManGang]

My nikka. I don't speak nothing but facts. I'm telling you PERSONALLY. that I was a bigger Drake stan than anyone could ever hope to be. I've met him thrice, and I know the history. I'm not talking bullshyt. Ye' grew up black in America. Not in the burbs, "Middle Class" in America might as well be poor. Drake grew up in Forest Hill Toronto. That's a rich Jew neighborhood. nikka complained more about "not seeing his dad" than seeing him. How could you say that a middle class black man in America, grew up the same as a biracial jew in Forest Hill Toronto. Cole's mama was on drugs, his father wasn't around either, add to the fact that he got a ACADEMIC scholarship, nikka didnt' fukking get a free ride for nothing. Drake is White America's poster child.

And yes, because he identifies as Jewish he can't say nikka. I don't know why that's so hard for nikkas to understand. Dude is a Jew. Hangs around those type of white folks who thinks its cool to say nikka. And he says that shyt excessively. To the point where pop culture takes it as something different. Which goes back to cultural misrepresentation. "nikka" isn't the same thing as "homie", but listening to Drake, you'd think it is. I don't call my white friends "my nikkas", its not the same thing. So yes, since he identifies as Jewish, he can't say nikka.

Drake is white America's dream. An appropriating half-white jew that is at the helm of black music. Who doesn't shed light on black issues but uses black slang. That gives white kids WHO GREW UP LIKE HIM in SUBURBS, license to say the shyt. And they got you nikkas cosigning that shyt. Defending that shyt. Somewhere down the line you guys are gonna cosign a white artist saying nikka. and say "cmon fam we gonna have double standards about that word?" Because it starts with this. Same thing that happened to Nicki, will happen to Drizzy. He's a trial run. They tested the waters with Nicki, and the second Iggy showed up doing the SAME shyt, in a white persons body, they shunned Nicki out. Drake, He's the guy they'll use to see how far they can dilute the quality. And then they'll swoop in and big up and white artist, and then that'll be rap FINISHED. Rap is one of the last black artforms thats still around. nikkas who pretend they can't see shyt will be the down fall of it. This indifference toward real shyt and fake shyt, is the problem.

You made some good points. But at the same time that last paragraph you went kinda Mr. Fantastic on me. I always felt like Drake worked hard to get put on because even though he grew up there, it wasn't his money. Ye spent a lot of time out the country and in non black areas too tho fam. I'm just saying. Cole grew up in a biracial area. BUT overall I see what you saying, I respect it. I don't envision it the same way you do though. Time will tell. I enjoy the guy's music and I've always said, he comes across as a corny guy a lot, but he makes GOOD music.

 

[desp]

It wouldn't be a Drake thread without @ModernFonzie typing up essays about how much he hates Drake

 

[onelastdeath]

You made some good points. But at the same time that last paragraph you went kinda Mr. Fantastic on me. I always felt like Drake worked hard to get put on because even though he grew up there, it wasn't his money. Ye spent a lot of time out the country and in non black areas too tho fam. I'm just saying. Cole grew up in a biracial area. BUT overall I see what you saying, I respect it. I don't envision it the same way you do though. Time will tell. I enjoy the guy's music and I've always said, he comes across as a corny guy a lot, but he makes GOOD music.

I just want rap to survive. That's why I give that guy so much shyt. Thats the gist of it if I'm being all the way 100. Rap is dying. A little more day by day. The quality is shrinking. And he's a part of that. I really do think white america has a plan for rap. Iggy being nominated for Grammys. Drake and Kendrick losing out on Grammys to Macklemore. They're sending a message bro. And I feel like if you're not a part of the solution, then your a part of the problem. He can be biracial, all he wants, he aint never gone be white. And the second that a white artist, who might not even be as good as Drake, or as talented, or melodic, comes along who white kids can identify with more than him, and leads his own era of rap music. Black rap might be done. On the real. That's the problem.

The same reason I had a problem with Nicki. I called this shyt years ago bro. Im talking 2010, that she was gonna be replaced and shunned out, that she was a trial run. And she was. Look at whats happening to her now. Take an artist like Iggy. The problem with her rapping in a fake accent, isn't that it's offensive. It's that too. But the real problem is that she's taking a lane from someone else. Somewhere right now, there's a female rapper with an authentic southern accent that's trying to get on, but CAN'T. Because that lane is taken by Iggy. So if she comes out, the first thing they'll see is that "SHES TRYING TO SOUND LIKE IGGY AZALEA" when in fact its the opposite. You feel me? There will be no black, female, artist from the south. Ever again. And if she does come, she'll never be that big, because she won't be able to identify with white people like that. This is what I'm trying to tell people is about to happen. I called it with Nicki and Im calling it now.

It's not that I don't like Drake. I spent years supporting him, and even went to his hot 97 showcase in 2009. I went to the Best I Ever Had shoot with the homies back in 2009 at my Old School. I even went to meet and greets for TML at Best Buy in the city. So I'm telling you, I got older and I see shyt for what it is, and this rap shyt is about to be finished on a mainstream level if shyt doesn't start changing. That's my problem with him. Not his music. Not his personality. What he represents. The fall of Hip Hop.

@desp this is why i feel what i feel about him.

 

[EA]

Drake has the songwrting ability and production that makes his music easily digestible. IMO, Drake's last project that got better with the more listens I gave it was So Far Gone. Since then, his projects are what they are after the first listen. You know what the club bangers are supposed to be, you know what the introspective love/simp songs are meant to be & you know what the Top 40 track is meant to be. Because of this, I think it's easier for his music to be accepted by a wider audience & if we're being real, he makes a lot meme music. Not in the Riff Raff/Lil B sense but in the sense that damn every one of his hit songs has a line that gets turned into an Instagram/Twitter meme and I believe this is done intentionally.

With J. Cole projects (for the record, I don't think much of his first two albums), you definitely have to sit with them for a while before an honest assessment can be made. His combination of lyrics and production for the most part doesn't allow his music to jump out at you immediately.

As far as lyrical ability goes, I think they're about even.

 

[OG Talk]

Drake composes better hooks, bridges and has a better ear for production..Plus we allow him to be a cornball because he's from Canada and has no expectations of being "cool"..

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Cole is TOO personal. Cause he doesnt have anything interesting to rap about

 

[JYoung24]

Cole lacks technical aspects.

Its been 5 years. We've seen Drake basically never been out-shined on a track he didn't let happen himself.

Yeah, Cole is more relatable at this point, but even his reliability isn't conveyed that well because at the end of the day, he's just not that great of a rapper.

Say if Drake went conscious (and he used to be), you know J Cole would never eat again because Drake is just better at putting words together than he is...thats everything from Cadence, Confidence, rhythms, flows, punchlines, metaphors, similes, rhymes, wit, style, flair, envy, creativity....all that.

Remember when Drake said "Lesbihonest" That shyt was probably the word of 2009.

And lets address this women thing...Drake is way more honest than cole...cause at the end of the day Drake says a lot more personal shyt that dudes and girls can relate to when it comes to actual feelings. J Cole is that "project window" type. Even though Drake didn't live as rough as Cole did, you'd never tell because when it comes to emotion you can't ever say Cole appears more sincere than Drake except a few times here or there and the rest of the time it comes off incredibly forced. Its almost all a gimmick at times with Cole.

Look at Cole's recent promo. Its like its his first album or something. Dude is seen riding on bicycles in NYC. Looking homely with the haircut. Looking like he's an indie artist again or something. Its all marketing.



Ehhhh...

Its only so long he can play that that average nikka phase without either some commercial viability or just his fans growing up and realizing how limited he is.

Cole's biggest hits relied HEAVILY on the features and chorus of the songs. Miguel. Missy Elliott. Trey Songz.

You know his "quotables" or anything approaching that are severely lacking if not-noneexistant sans a few obvious ad-libs or what not.

Cole is a B student in a B-/C+ era. Thats kinda the problem.

Dude has nothing to offer except that you know he's just a laid back dude who seems to have a strong sense of self and the sincerity of what rap fans claim they'd do when they "make it" themselves.

Drake transcends what he wishes he could do or could be and instead takes risks to see where he can go or challenge what else he can do.

I know people on here say I hate cole...and I don't. I enjoy when he actually brings the heat...but its so far and few in-between at this point that I just generally write him off. He's just a super average rapper who tries to skate on the laurels that he's "saying something important" instead of actually saying important things REALLY WELL. And theres a major difference in being able to do so.


My favorite example of this whole debate is this single clip where Drake shows up to J Cole's concert release for Cole's LAST album and basically steals the show @ 1:30

Cole lacks technical aspects.

Its been 5 years. We've seen Drake basically never been out-shined on a track he didn't let happen himself.

Yeah, Cole is more relatable at this point, but even his reliability isn't conveyed that well because at the end of the day, he's just not that great of a rapper.

Say if Drake went conscious (and he used to be), you know J Cole would never eat again because Drake is just better at putting words together than he is...thats everything from Cadence, Confidence, rhythms, flows, punchlines, metaphors, similes, rhymes, wit, style, flair, envy, creativity....all that.

Remember when Drake said "Lesbihonest" That shyt was probably the word of 2009.

And lets address this women thing...Drake is way more honest than cole...cause at the end of the day Drake says a lot more personal shyt that dudes and girls can relate to when it comes to actual feelings. J Cole is that "project window" type. Even though Drake didn't live as rough as Cole did, you'd never tell because when it comes to emotion you can't ever say Cole appears more sincere than Drake except a few times here or there and the rest of the time it comes off incredibly forced. Its almost all a gimmick at times with Cole.

Look at Cole's recent promo. Its like its his first album or something. Dude is seen riding on bicycles in NYC. Looking homely with the haircut. Looking like he's an indie artist again or something. Its all marketing.



Ehhhh...

Its only so long he can play that that average nikka phase without either some commercial viability or just his fans growing up and realizing how limited he is.

Cole's biggest hits relied HEAVILY on the features and chorus of the songs. Miguel. Missy Elliott. Trey Songz.

You know his "quotables" or anything approaching that are severely lacking if not-noneexistant sans a few obvious ad-libs or what not.

Cole is a B student in a B-/C+ era. Thats kinda the problem.

Dude has nothing to offer except that you know he's just a laid back dude who seems to have a strong sense of self and the sincerity of what rap fans claim they'd do when they "make it" themselves.

Drake transcends what he wishes he could do or could be and instead takes risks to see where he can go or challenge what else he can do.

I know people on here say I hate cole...and I don't. I enjoy when he actually brings the heat...but its so far and few in-between at this point that I just generally write him off. He's just a super average rapper who tries to skate on the laurels that he's "saying something important" instead of actually saying important things REALLY WELL. And theres a major difference in being able to do so.


My favorite example of this whole debate is this single clip where Drake shows up to J Cole's concert release for Cole's LAST album and basically steals the show @ 1:30

Everything u said in this post was wrong drake is not more lyrical than cole and Drake had been outshined plenty of times he's the definition of average

 

[onelastdeath]

Cole lacks technical aspects.

Its been 5 years. We've seen Drake basically never been out-shined on a track he didn't let happen himself.

Yeah, Cole is more relatable at this point, but even his reliability isn't conveyed that well because at the end of the day, he's just not that great of a rapper.

Say if Drake went conscious (and he used to be), you know J Cole would never eat again because Drake is just better at putting words together than he is...thats everything from Cadence, Confidence, rhythms, flows, punchlines, metaphors, similes, rhymes, wit, style, flair, envy, creativity....all that.

Remember when Drake said "Lesbihonest" That shyt was probably the word of 2009.

And lets address this women thing...Drake is way more honest than cole...cause at the end of the day Drake says a lot more personal shyt that dudes and girls can relate to when it comes to actual feelings. J Cole is that "project window" type. Even though Drake didn't live as rough as Cole did, you'd never tell because when it comes to emotion you can't ever say Cole appears more sincere than Drake except a few times here or there and the rest of the time it comes off incredibly forced. Its almost all a gimmick at times with Cole.

Look at Cole's recent promo. Its like its his first album or something. Dude is seen riding on bicycles in NYC. Looking homely with the haircut. Looking like he's an indie artist again or something. Its all marketing.



Ehhhh...

Its only so long he can play that that average nikka phase without either some commercial viability or just his fans growing up and realizing how limited he is.

Cole's biggest hits relied HEAVILY on the features and chorus of the songs. Miguel. Missy Elliott. Trey Songz.

You know his "quotables" or anything approaching that are severely lacking if not-noneexistant sans a few obvious ad-libs or what not.

Cole is a B student in a B-/C+ era. Thats kinda the problem.

Dude has nothing to offer except that you know he's just a laid back dude who seems to have a strong sense of self and the sincerity of what rap fans claim they'd do when they "make it" themselves.

Drake transcends what he wishes he could do or could be and instead takes risks to see where he can go or challenge what else he can do.

I know people on here say I hate cole...and I don't. I enjoy when he actually brings the heat...but its so far and few in-between at this point that I just generally write him off. He's just a super average rapper who tries to skate on the laurels that he's "saying something important" instead of actually saying important things REALLY WELL. And theres a major difference in being able to do so.


My favorite example of this whole debate is this single clip where Drake shows up to J Cole's concert release for Cole's LAST album and basically steals the show @ 1:30

everything you posted is a matter of stardom and popularity not quality

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

everything you posted is a matter of stardom and popularity not quality

This is why Drake has album cuts that end up more popular than other artists singles?