"When God was dead for 3 days and 3 nights who was controlling the Universe?" - Ahmed Deedat

[SATAN]

I always find it funny that these God-hating "atheists" never show up in any threads related to Islam, Hinduism, Buddism, or any other religion.

Yet they always have something negative to say about Christianity. They are doing exactly what the Bible said they would do, and they're not even aware. They literally dedicate enormous amounts of time to studying the Bible and memorizing Bible verses just to try to prove that God doesn't exist.

They have entire study guides worth of anti-Christian arguments bookmarked in a folder and ready to copy/paste at a moment's notice.

Why go through all the effort for a God that doesn't exist? Why only get upset about Christianity and not Sikhism or Baha'ism?

 

[IVS]

Well, you gotta consider the simple fact that NONE of these texts were written for US.

We in the present-day are not the intended audience for these.

Also, the OT/NT wasn't written to disprove Evolution/Science/etc. None of those existed and no one at the time would have understood it anyhow.​

did you just say science did not exist when they were writing the old testament?

 

[IVS]

I always find it funny that these God-hating "atheists" never show up in any threads related to Islam, Hinduism, Buddism, or any other religion.

Yet they always have something negative to say about Christianity. They are doing exactly what the Bible said they would do, and they're not even aware. They literally dedicate enormous amounts of time to studying the Bible and memorizing Bible verses just to try to prove that God doesn't exist.

They have entire study guides worth of anti-Christian arguments bookmarked in a folder and ready to copy/paste at a moment's notice.

Why go through all the effort for a God that doesn't exist? Why only get upset about Christianity and not Sikhism or Baha'ism?

LMFAO! Nukka in here lying hard as fux. Here go the crybaby bullshyt.

You know damn well folks bomb on Islam round here. And we dont really entertain Buddhism(whatever them Tibetans claim they practicing or Hinduism). Also, Buddhism and Hinduism are not out here causing massive wars and fighting each other in the name of being holy. Nor are they proselytizing and claiming a monopoly on God like you disgusting Christians do. The arrogance of christian is incredibly disturbing.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

If you only read one paper on Jesus and the identity of God, read this one:

Jesus and the Identity of God

In Christianity and even in the gospels it's debated on whether Jesus was born as the Christ or if the Christ descended upon Jesus after he was born. What people in this thread is missing is that the Jesus myth is talking about the Christ, which exists prior to creation, as the bridge to which man is able to connect to God and to his own godliness. I believe the concept of the Christ is greek? I can't remember. Either way it's not Jesus himself that is the son but the Christ in which Jesus represents. People mistake that a lot. That's why he's Jesus Christ, man and God.

Trinity came later, did not exist in the earliest forms of Christianity.
Read above on what I said about the Christ. Also word made flesh comes from the Gospel of John, which heavily references and takes from Greek philosophy. Logos is a Greek concept. They were trying to incorporate that into the Jesus myth to convert more gentiles.


I personally think it's the other way around: the spirit houses the body and then leaves it behind. That's just my personal belief. I think the body and spirit are one until the spirit no longer assumes it.

This is true, especially the literal interpretation. I'll add though that in God there is no duality, and thus there is no devil. But yes you are correct.
Judaism was polytheistic early on. Wasn't until many revisions and agreed upon concepts that God became one. The Hebrews were many tribes that came together on the desert. They each had a mythology that centered around Yahweh but they had different beliefs about him. I took a class once that explained how there are disparate, contradictory elements even in genesis where you can see opposing views being played out. Several tribes wrote pieces of Genesis. Hebrews didn't start off as one big tribe. Also early Judaism practiced human sacrifice. People are very ignorant when it comes to Judaism and Christianity. Crazy too since they worship a religion they themselves don't understand

"Christ" is literally just the Greek translation of the Hebrew for "Messiah". It's 100% Jewish.

"Christ" does not mean "God". Whether the Jews believed the Messiah would be divine is an open question, but calling Jesus messiah (Christ) does not mean you are affirming the trinity.

The concept of "son of God" comes from Judaism, not Roman emperors. It was a repeated designation for the Messiah. However, in neither Judaism nor in Roman paganism did it mean "part of the Godhead." That is a Christian innovation but it is not based on the "son of God" term.

The Word of God (Logos) is a very Jewish concept used repeatedly in pre-Christian writings. John is appropriating Greek imagery here but he is using it to explain a Jewish concept.

Trinity is a human model that developed over time, but Jesus as God was present from literally the very earliest years of Christianity.

I do agree that the Pentateuch appears to be a combination of several different sources.

I higher recommend reading this for an introduction to how the concept of the trinity developed from Judaism.

Jesus and the Identity of God



And this is a nuanced discussion of Jesus's self-understanding that deals with criticism from both directions.

Jesus’ Self-Understanding

 

[JuvenileHell]

believe in God brehs

 

[Professor Emeritus]

This is a Christian Myth. The verse of the Quran in question never claims Mary is a part of the trinity, it rather condemns Mariolatry which existed back then and still exists to this day.

Breh, since MANY Muslims have told me this directly you can't blame this one on Christians.

They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.

That's from Sura 5 of the Koran. He's clearly critiquing the trinity ("third of three") and then dismisses the divinity of Jesus and Mary as if the misunderstanding is equivalent.

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.

That's later in Sura 5, also a clear reference to the Trinity, "my mother and me as deities besides Allah", also clearly confusing Mary as one of the Trinity.

You know how many Islamic verses identify the Holy Spirit as the third member of the Trinity? Exactly zero.

You just have to take this L. It's not like it's the only time the Koran confuses Christian theology either.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

believe in God brehs

Believe that all spacetime reality just came from nowhere brehs.

Believe your consciousness and conscience are just the results of random atomic interactions brehs.

Believe life is meaningless brehs.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

did you just say science did not exist when they were writing the old testament?

Reread what I posted, not just one sentence.

Context is important.​

 

[EARFQUAKE]

I believe we live a computer simulated reality. Who created our simulation? I don't know. It could have been future humans, artificial intelligence (like the Matrix) or aliens.

Either way its pretty obvious our creator doesn't really care whether we know they exist or not. Just think of it this way. If you created a video game where the characters were conscious. Would you really care if they worshiped you or not? In addition, if you did care that they worship you, wouldn't you at least make your existence more obvious than just talking in secret to one guy thousands of years ago and hoping he spreads your message?

Its should be obvious to anyone with any intelligence that RELIGION is man-made. Clearly a God exists and we were created. But just like the guys who designed The Sims or Grand Theft Auto don't care if the simulated beings know they exist or worship them, I don't believe our creators care whether we know who they are or whether we worship them. They created our world for some other reason than having us worship them.

You come from billions of years worth of evolved organisms to create the so-called intelligent life form we are today. Not some code a sociopath came up with who, in return, would need a creator as well, and so on.

 

[EARFQUAKE]

If we are a simulation and our creator doesn't care about us then you will never know, as no one in this universe would have the knowledge to that secret. If you really want to find out, dying may be your best answer.

 

[Thatrogueassdiaz]

If you only read one paper on Jesus and the identity of God, read this one:

Jesus and the Identity of God





"Christ" is literally just the Greek translation of the Hebrew for "Messiah". It's 100% Jewish.

"Christ" does not mean "God". Whether the Jews believed the Messiah would be divine is an open question, but calling Jesus messiah (Christ) does not mean you are affirming the trinity.

The concept of "son of God" comes from Judaism, not Roman emperors. It was a repeated designation for the Messiah. However, in neither Judaism nor in Roman paganism did it mean "part of the Godhead." That is a Christian innovation but it is not based on the "son of God" term.

The Word of God (Logos) is a very Jewish concept used repeatedly in pre-Christian writings. John is appropriating Greek imagery here but he is using it to explain a Jewish concept.

Trinity is a human model that developed over time, but Jesus as God was present from literally the very earliest years of Christianity.

I do agree that the Pentateuch appears to be a combination of several different sources.

I higher recommend reading this for an introduction to how the concept of the trinity developed from Judaism.

Jesus and the Identity of God



And this is a nuanced discussion of Jesus's self-understanding that deals with criticism from both directions.

Jesus’ Self-Understanding

Logos predates Christianity. Greeks were heavy over there long before that concept was written in the Bible. Again, it was Greek, but it is being COMBINED to further accentuate Jesus' divinity. Jesus as God was not presented in the beginning of Christianity. That developed as well. He was not considered the Messiah in the beginning. The Jews that began to form Christianity wanted to raise his value to the community. Quite literally they were trying to make sure his importance wasn't lost. Christianity SLOWLY separated from Judaism, and it only did so out of political reasons, as most of what's in the Bible in general was written under the influence of politics, which is why many books don't agree with each other.

There was no "John" who wrote the Book of John. Book of John was written by a sect of Christian writers and is considered Johannine literature. Not just one writer.

Jesus myth took a very very very long time to form. He didn't start out as God lol.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Logos predates Christianity. Greeks were heavy over there long before that concept was written in the Bible. Again, it was Greek, but it is being COMBINED to further accentuate Jesus' divinity. Jesus as God was not presented in the beginning of Christianity. That developed as well. He was not considered the Messiah in the beginning. The Jews that began to form Christianity wanted to raise his value to the community. Quite literally they were trying to make sure his importance wasn't lost. Christianity SLOWLY separated from Judaism, and it only did so out of political reasons, as most of what's in the Bible in general was written under the influence of politics, which is why many books don't agree with each other.

There was no "John" who wrote the Book of John. Book of John was written by a sect of Christian writers and is considered Johannine literature. Not just one writer.

Jesus myth took a very very very long time to form. He didn't start out as God lol.

I linked three different articles to support my position. You're free to either engage with them or ignore me, but simply restating your opinion with zero receipts doesn't further the discussion at all.

 

[Chelsea Bridge]

See this is why people are confused by the Bible, because according to Jesus we are all Gods. He cited Psalms 82:6

Psalm 82
A psalm of Asaph.
1 God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods”:

2 “How long will you[a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?[b]
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”

8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.

gods and God are not the same but I can see why it’s confusing.

 

[IVS]

Typical atheist. A balanced mix of ignorance, lies, and malice

I almost want to feel sorry for y'all for being so dumb and misguided.

 

[IVS]

gods and God are not the same but I can see why it’s confusing.

And what is your point ?