In their primes, who do you take: Nash or Jkidd

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

that had more to do with the coaching style of byron and the offensive talent arond kidd

Scott left it up to Kidd to run the Princeton-based offense for the most part (half the reason why Kidd was able to grab uncontested rebounds on the regular to push the ball on the fastbreak + control the ball as much as he did), and it wasn't like the Nets were void of talent. Nevertheless Kidd didn't have the ability nor aggressiveness to attempt to make up for for their lack of elite scorers, which is half the reason why they had such terrible offenses during the early/mid '00s.

kenyon and richard were the athletes, then you had todd mcculough and lucious harris

Nash led a top-10 offense of the modern era (at the time) with Raja Bell, Marion, Diaw and Kurt Thomas as the starting lineup. I don't wanna hear this shyt about Kidd's lack of surrounding offensive talent. Give Nash any of those Nets squads, and they'd all have a better offense with him as the PG.

 

[Draje]

Nash played in a system that maximized his offensive talents. The same system is making james harden look like the Big O, made Lin legit etc.. And basketball is more than just 1 side of the ball anyway. There was a reason why in phoenix kidd was starting and nash was backing him up. Nash had his best seasons after 30, it's clear why that was.

Because he was given free reigns. Nash showed his ASS against playoff caliber defenses and typically played better in the playoffs than he did.

Kidd could never play in that offense like Nash because he's nowhere near him as a scorer or offensive player.

Seriously...comparing their offense impact is like saying Rondo is a better offensive player than CP3. The difference between their scoring is fukking stupid.

 

[hayesc0]

Nash played in a system that maximized his offensive talents. The same system is making james harden look like the Big O, made Lin legit etc.. And basketball is more than just 1 side of the ball anyway. There was a reason why in phoenix kidd was starting and nash was backing him up. Nash had his best seasons after 30, it's clear why that was.

I agree any competent pg looks good in that system had Kendall Marshall looking like a starter in the league lol. All the pg in that systems # are inflated.

 

[hayesc0]

Dantoni made nash into a superstar HOF. Before that he was a very good allstar.

Jason kidd can thrive in any system and any offense. This isn't even close.

Yep kidd doesn't even need a good coach Byron Scott was his coach in those finals appearances.

 

[Piff Huxtable]

I've already written up the 'prime Nash > prime Kidd' manual in this thread breh.

from the same author that brought you the classic novel "Why the firing of David Blatt was a mistake and will cost Clevelanda a ring"

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

from the same author that brought you the classic novel "Why the firing of David Blatt was a mistake and will cost Clevelanda a ring"

i) I said they needed to get rid of Blatt because the team was at a crossroads - they couldn't go on with how things were
ii) I never said firing him would cost them a ring - I said all throughout last season that the Cavs were the biggest threat to GS and had a great chance of winning the title.

I even said this right before the Finals -

That was mostly on purpose to keep the ball outta KD's or Westbrook's hands, in case the ball swung to them. But yeah, there can't be any defensive breakdowns on the perimeter for GS else the Cavs will burn them. This series is too close to call. Both teams have a near-equal amount of advantages and will likely expose (for the lack of a better word) and create holes in the other team's defense. I expect to see quite a few high-scoring affairs with empty clips all over the court in this series.

Unless you've got something to add to this thread you can keep it moving.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I agree any competent pg looks good in that system had Kendall Marshall looking like a starter in the league lol. All the pg in that systems # are inflated.

i) A brief period of them having good production doesn't mean anything considering Nash did it for multiple years - while running some of the greatest offenses the league has ever seen - Kendall, Felton and Lin didn't.
ii) When given minutes, all players proved they could put up similar production to when they were under Pringles on other teams (look at the difference in shot attempts too, not just the PTS by themselves):

Kendall -

Lin -

Felton -

iii) D'Antoni's record with Nash:

232-96 (.707), 26-25 playoff record, 4 50+ win seasons out 4 (2 60+ win seasons)

D'Antoni's record without Nash:

223-330 (.403), 0-8 playoff record, 2 winning seasons out of 8

iv) Nash proved he could score in Dallas on the same level he did in Phoenix (18 ppg in Dallas and 18.8 ppg in Phoenix) and he proved he could pass on the same level - the only real difference is in Phoenix he was given more offensive freedom and the Suns executed plays within the first third of the shotclock. It accentuated his skills, that's all. The scheme didn't make him shoot as great as he did, the scheme didn't make him pass as great as he did. He was a late-bloomer, who only really got a chance to prove himself and show what he was truly capable once in got into Phoenix.
v) D'Antoni said around 2007 that he basically left the offense and what the team did up to Nash. Basically he had autocracy.
vi) After D'Antoni left Phoenix - Nash proceeded to lead TWO more top-20 offenses of all time as well as averaging a career-high in assists (11.4)

 

[hayesc0]

from the same author that brought you the classic novel "Why the firing of David Blatt was a mistake and will cost Clevelanda a ring"

He says alot of nothing most of the time imo.

 

[Piff Huxtable]

i) I said they needed to get rid of Blatt because the team was at a crossroads - they couldn't go on with how things were
ii) I never said firing him would cost them a ring - I said all throughout last season that the Cavs were the biggest threat to GS and had a great chance of winning the title.

I even said this right before the Finals -


Unless you've got something to add to this thread you can keep it moving.

yeah i have something to add to this thread:

one of these two players is a career loser that doesn't know how it feels to play professional basketball past the first week of june
the other is Jason Kidd

one of these two players put up nice but inflated numbers in a gimmick offense
the other is Jason Kidd

one of these two players only beat teams when it didn't matter (06-07 Lakers, 10 Spurs) but never when it mattered (10 Lakers, 05 and 07 Spurs)
the other is Jason Kidd

one of these two players won MVP at the height of the mid-00's backlash against hip hop's influence on the NBA a.k.a. the era
the other is Jason Kidd

one of these two players never came closer to winning the ship than the time he was the the 3rd option behind Nowitzki and Finley in 2003
the other is Jason Kidd

 

[hayesc0]

He got pat beverley out here putting up #.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

He says alot of nothing most of the time imo.

A lot of nothing? Is that why you have trouble contesting my points?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

one of these two players is a career loser that doesn't know how it feels to play professional basketball past the first week of june
the other is Jason Kidd

A career loser?

You do realize that Nash has more regular season wins and playoff wins in a tougher conference during their respective primes right?

one of these two players put up nice but inflated numbers in a gimmick offense
the other is Jason Kidd

Inflated stats?

"Nash proved he could score in Dallas on the same level he did in Phoenix (18 ppg in Dallas and 18.8 ppg in Phoenix) and he proved he could pass on the same level - the only real difference is in Phoenix he was given more offensive freedom and the Suns executed plays within the first third of the shotclock. It accentuated his skills, that's all. The scheme didn't make him shoot as great as he did, the scheme didn't make him pass as great as he did. He was a late-bloomer, who only really got a chance to prove himself and show what he was truly capable once in got into Phoenix."

What was Kidd's excuse for being an efficient scorer and overall poor offensive player?

one of these two players only beat teams when it didn't matter (06-07 Lakers, 10 Spurs) but never when it mattered (10 Lakers, 05 and 07 Spurs)
the other is Jason Kidd

Imagine Kidd's Nets being in the West and Nash's Suns being in the East.

Nash would've had multiple Finals appearances and at least one ring depending on who came out of the West
Kidd would've had multiple first round exits (and seasons where his team didn't make the playoffs altogether) and deemed a career loser

one of these two players won MVP at the height of the mid-00's backlash against hip hop's influence on the NBA a.k.a. the era
the other is Jason Kidd

Nash TWO MVPs
Kidd ZERO MVPs

 

[hayesc0]

A lot of nothing? Is that why you have trouble contesting my points?

No one has trouble contesting your points you take what has been established twist it to your own opinions in several paragraphs and grossly misuse the smiley.

 

[GPBear]

tbh this is just one of those where I went off gut, I never liked Jason Kidd

Nash is cool though. Like my generation's John Stockton.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

No one has trouble contesting your points you take what has been established twist it to your own opinions in several paragraphs

That's funny because nobody has been able to contest my argument in this thread. They've tried but they just can't block my shot like that.

and grossly misuse the smiley.

There's really no such thing as misusing smilies on this board. You can use them for whatever intention you deem fit.