Charles Barkley rants about Analytics and destroys Rocket GM

[Charlie Broadway]

And the only reason he's on the Rockets is cause they couldn't resign Parsons. weren't any number crunching and analytics used for that acquisition

That's not true he literally hates the front office because he says he was lied to about a contract during his playing days

 

[ghostwriterx]

HE thrived at both...he averaged about 9 FTs the last 2 seasons but he was also pretty effective as a perimter/mid post face up big that could just beat most 5s off the dribble...The strategy he was marking out about is just common sense,most coaches would use Bosh in that way cuz it plays to his strengths...

Yeah, but he didn't post at all in Miami and moved his game out to the three point line to open up space for Wade and Bron. He didn't do that his first year in Miami and throughout their run plenty of people complained he didn't post up enough (esp on this board), so not sure how "common sense" that was. I think part of this hate is an overreaction to the media touting analytics as some kind of "magic elixir" that turns straw into gold, which it isn't. A lot of it is not complicated, but when it starts to conflict with conventional wisdom (corner 3s >> mid range shots) people get aggy.

 

[Charlie Broadway]

Boy stop with the boo boo...Its not depicted as a tool, but moreso as an ideology....Don't twist up the talking points now lil dude

link something and back up what you're saying. Lin

 

[Eternal Tecate]

This is the problem,its not with analytiucs its with ppl who use them solely and think they are the be all and end all of data now.
You think every NBA team uses analytics alone to make decisions ?? When almost half the leagues coaches and GMs say they dont ?

Analytics has a place and some of the stats are interesting but they just add to the game as opposed to what teams are solely relying on like some analytical heads want you to believe....

Literally nobody has ever said or implied that

 

[ghostwriterx]

I'd say the Grizz have a great shot this year, but I don't know how much their roster is based on analytics.

The guy who invented PER is their VP of Basketball OPs so I'm going to guess, "a lot".

 

[Miggs]

Yeah, but he didn't post at all in Miami and moved his game out to the three point line to open up space for Wade and Bron. He didn't do that his first year in Miami and throughout their run plenty of people complained he didn't post up enough (esp on this board), so not sure how "common sense" that was. I think part of this hate is an overreaction to the media touting analytics as some kind of "magic elixir" that turns straw into gold, which it isn't. A lot of it is not complicated, but when it starts to conflict with conventional wisdom (corner 3s >> mid range shots) people get aggy.

To me thats bad coaching nothing more,it made sense to move him and clear out the lane for LeBron to operate...He can post up but i think hes better suited in that mid range face up role...

 

[Eternal Tecate]

the spurs have the higher pedigree'd and high bball IQ players.
when not Staffed properly, with high IQ players that are hof level they lose.
It is as simple as that.
talent , confidence, high employed iq, skill, height = success in bball

let's put it like this,...
your analytics would keep ho ass pussified Adrian dantley.
I would notice mark Aguirre was more hood and his ferocity would win a title with the pistons.

also, analytics trying to swallow anything meaning statistics is wrong, too.

Art Barr

you aren't even speaking english anymore

read a book

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

To help evaluate players/contracts/optimal coaching strategies, plenty of articles on specific situations.

This is broad and so vague....to the point that I could argue that analytics weren't needed to help with these "evaluations and strategies" its not a hard question anyone is asking...But when you hire and fire GMs and Coaches and then taunt analytics as to the reason why you brought the new guys on, then yeah, it comes across as more than just a "tool"

I haven't seen a lot of Rockets game this year, but the ones I did see, they did not look good defensively...

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

To me thats bad coaching nothing more,it made sense to move him and clear out the lane for LeBron to operate...He can post up but i think hes better suited in that mid range face up role...

But see, according to the posters in here, you need analytics to come to that conclusion....as to why I ask, what does analytics provide specifically in Basketball..

 

[Lucky_Lefty]

The guy who invented PER is their VP of Basketball OPs so I'm going to guess, "a lot".

shyt, he the main reason Hollins was shown the bushes

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Omer Asik getting paid involved some analytics. Most people thought he got paid too much at the time. Kyle Lowry was a nobody with unimpressive stats from a backup pg but he showed positive traits that someone may miss without the use of advanced stats. But yeah come lie to me about most people thought those were good moves.

Also you'd agree Corey Brewer and and Josh Smith are poor (or at least not good) 3 pt shooters right? Yet they're shooting very well since coming to Houston. Analytics will tell you that although they aren't good shooters overall they are good shooters from certain spots. The rockets just try to keep them shooting from those hot spots. So no they haven't improved as shooters they have improved their percentages by being more efficient in their shots.

Dude..I'm sorry, I appreciate your examples, but I don't think you needed analytics to come to any of these conclusions....

However, if this is what analytics bring to the table then so be it.....

 

[Miggs]

So Kyle Lowry became a starter and got paid 12 mil a season because of analytics

Id love to hear this argument...

 

[duckbutta]

While I think charles took it to the extreme, I do agree that "analytics" gets way to much credit for good basketball decisions...

Like people look at Memphis trading Gay away as a good move that only happened because of "anlytics"

When in reality Memphis had an established big man in Z bo giving you 20 and 10, and up and coming point guard in conley who was needing more touches to get better, an up and coming big man in Gasol who was beginning to give you 20 and 10 whenever Z bo didn't...

So of course the logical thing to do is to get rid of a chucker who doesn't shoot it at a high percentage (Gay) to let those guys get more shots and grow more as players...

That not an "analytics" thing...that's a common sense basketball thing...

 

[Charlie Broadway]

Dude..I'm sorry, I appreciate your examples, but I don't think you needed analytics to come to any of these conclusions....

However, if this is what analytics bring to the table then so be it.....

And you know what, that's fine. I think most people that watch basketball will look at advance stats and say, "yep, i noticed that too". Most of the time it confirms what you already know. I think you may be embellishing a bit but whatever. Rockets were the only team to go at Asik like that. Pistons didn't have Smith shooting from where he's good at for whatever reason. These are professional teams but somehow every anti analytics guy knows all of this without needing to be told.

It's cool though. We clearly aren't changing each other's minds.

 

[Miggs]

While I think charles took it to the extreme, I do agree that "analytics" gets way to much credit for good basketball decisions...

Like people look at Memphis trading Gay away as a good move that only happened because of "anlytics"

When in reality Memphis had an established big man in Z bo giving you 20 and 10, and up and coming point guard in conley who was needing more touches to get better, an up and coming big man in Gasol who was beginning to give you 20 and 10 whenever Z bo didn't...

So of course the logical thing to do is to get rid of a chucker who doesn't shoot it at a high percentage (Gay) to let those guys get more shots and grow more as players...

That not an "analytics" thing...that's a common sense basketball thing...

Nahmean hes a 18 PPG scorer that needs 23 shots to do it making damn near max money,why would analytics want to claim that...nobody outside of a middling 25 win team wanted that contract....