Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[Booker T Garvey]

He's right

of course he's right

irv gotti exposed jay IMO

right after biggie died, jay just wanted to step into biggie's shoes and that's exactly what he tried to do:

 

[lutha]

Jay pleaded for that album to be a classic. And yes there was a bunch of albums that year that didn't make a "mark". Jay's was one of those albums. It was looked at as a hot album. It was his debut album and it didn't make a mark critically or commercially brot. Illmatic did. Ready To Die did. OBFCL did. The Infamous did. 36 Chambers did. Doggystyle. The Chronic. The list goes on and on. That shyt was on the level of AZ's Doe or Die when it dropped. Dope album but wasn't considered a game changer.

pleading for sales and pleading for classic are 2 different things...he pleaded for the album to have sold a lot, not for it to be classic...cause that's not something he, you, me, nor anyone else can decide for others....it's all opinion....some thought it was, some thought it wasnt...which ever side their opinion fall on is cool, cause it's all opinion...

also, using your list, some of those albums werent debut albums from those artist (the infamous, obfcl, the chronic), so they had more of a backing/following at the time they dropped than an artist with a debut...

not trying to change your mind, just asking for my own clarity: to you, for an album to make a mark, be considered 'hot' (as future said), it has to be a game changer?...

 

[Gravity]

lol, Bait reply to try to turn this into a ''Nas vs Jay'' thread.

The illmatic situation is a lil different, The hype for Nas was there he was
being consider a golden child of hiphop, Due to heavy bootlegging Columbia Records
had to salvage what they had and put out illmatic as it is, illmattic was suppose to
have upwards to 14 -15 songs on it.

Bait nothing, that was a relevant fact. Your spin doesn't discount the point that just because an album went gold didn't mean that nobody was checking for it. I don't deny that illmatic was more highly acclaimed upon its initial release but cats acting like RD was some throwaway joint that NOBODY was checking for is a lie. One of the beauties of the album for me being someone who caught on to the greatness of the album from the door is that it was initially slept on. I got a kick out of putting people on to it. Just vibe cause the mainstream slept doesn't mean that everyone did.

 

[hex]

This is an Internet argument. Dude probably was introduced to RD thru the Internet.

That was a good number back then tho. Gold debut with no major push was a success. It parlayed him to a bigger deal. IIlmatic took years to go platinum as well. The haters are the ones tryna rewrite history.

Hold up a sec.

This ain't directed at you specifically, but I need to clear something up.

There is no way to know when an album went plat or gold because the date listed is it's certification, not when it shipped that amount. The artist or label don't pay for certification = there is never a gold or plat plaque. The artist or label pays = the album or song is certified. It has nothing to do with when it hits 500k, 1 mill, whatever.

So if you came out in 1992, and shipped 500k, but your label didn't pay for the auditing process until 2000....it's going to look like it took you 8 years to go gold. And you have to pay for each certification.

Fred.

 

[mson]

 

[Larry Lambo]

I feel like people say this because of what Jay-Z ended up becoming. The bar changed when he became mainstream.

Nobody says "Nocturnal" wasn't hot when it dropped, or "Whut Thee Album" wasn't hot when it dropped, but I can guarantee RD was more popular than those albums.

To me, the album was hot because a lot of East Coast heads were bumping it and the videos got mad play on Rap City/Yo MTV Raps.

It didn't crossover to the mainstream, but I didn't think you had to do that to be hot.

 

[hex]

....

I kinda wish Nas vs Jay never battled because any observation is going to seem like it's biased for or against one of them.

But he's right though. People were talking about Nas is the next Rakim. Nobody was really talking about Jay in any capacity. He was just another random guy with an album out at the time.

Fred.

 

[Gravity]

Hold up a sec.

This ain't directed at you specifically, but I need to clear something up.

There is no way to know when an album went plat or gold because the date listed is it's certification, not when it shipped that amount. The artist or label don't pay for certification = there is never a gold or plat plaque. The artist or label pays = the album or song is certified. It has nothing to do with when it hits 500k, 1 mill, whatever.

So if you came out in 1992, and shipped 500k, but your label didn't pay for the auditing process until 2000....it's going to look like it took you 8 years to go gold. And you have to pay for each certification.

Fred.

Cool, you're right. My point still remains tho. I was saying that RD was one of the best albums that I has ever heard back in '96.

 

[philmonroe]

Hard Knock Life Jay-Z is the best version of Jay-Z ever. That's the version of Jay-Z that people actually gave a fukk about, and set up a beautiful run from 98 till Black Album.

Y'all can't rewrite history. I remember listening to tracks off Reasonable Doubt in 97 and not giving a fukk. They were good joints, but they weren't addictive. "Can I Get A" blew all that shyt out the water.



Which people? Coli lames?

Hard knock life was what made him known all over but on the east coast people were bumping RD. Things were different in 96 then they were now. Hell I remember I brought all the no limit/cash money stuff up during winter break and cats was like this shyt hot before it pumped nationally. Stuff like that is harder to do now. I think that had something to do with it. Most cats saying they didn't like RD probably aren't from the east coast cause I know a lot of cats were bumping it when it dropped.

 

[Gravity]

But he's right though. People were talking about Nas is the next Rakim. Nobody was really talking about Jay in any capacity. He was just another random guy with an album out at the time.

Fred.

This is a lie. If you knew you knew that Jay wasn't just some random cat as soon as you paid attention and started listening. If you didn't know or wasn't paying attention then that was just you sleeping. The material speaks for itself tho and it did back then too.

 

[dem bath salts]

He's right. As a nikka who was in high school at the time and one of tge few miami cats in my area who was into east coast rao, yiu dont know how many times my brehs asked wht i listened to that "wu tang shyt", I only really knew jay frim fukking with foxy and the who ya with video. Hard knock life was when he became a prince of the game and I'll say he became a king with jigga who, jigga what video.

 

[Larry Lambo]

people in the streets were not buzzing about jay-z like they were buzzing about nas when he was getting to drop illmatic or snoop doggystyle

But does an album need to get to that level to be considered "hot"?

 

[seemorecizzy]

reasonable doubt is a classic
but no one entered 1997 thinking that

jay-z been shoving that album down our throats for 20 years

eventually ppl turned it to something it never was

nas it was written gained legs as a classic in the later years too

but nas didnt go on no campaign like jay did lol

biggie and pac dying opened up so much lanes for hov

 

[Surreal]

Jay has no classic albums

 

[hex]

pleading for sales and pleading for classic are 2 different things...he pleaded for the album to have sold a lot, not for it to be classic...cause that's not something he, you, me, nor anyone else can decide for others....it's all opinion....some thought it was, some thought it wasnt...which ever side their opinion fall on is cool, cause it's all opinion...

also, using your list, some of those albums werent debut albums from those artist (the infamous, obfcl, the chronic), so they had more of a backing/following at the time they dropped than an artist with a debut...

not trying to change your mind, just asking for my own clarity: to you, for an album to make a mark, be considered 'hot' (as future said), it has to be a game changer?...

I don't want to argue semantics about what "mark" means but Jay was just another rapper when "RD" came out. He was just a guy with an album out. It didn't hit like "OB4CL" or "Doggystyle".

"Hit" don't mean hit records or sales. It means, people talking about it. It being inescapable among rap fans. If you were in school at the time, cats knowing the lyrics. Arguing over the best song.

That is what @spliz is talking about.

This is a lie. If you knew you knew that Jay wasn't just some random cat as soon as you paid attention and started listening. If you didn't know or wasn't paying attention then that was just you sleeping. The material speaks for itself tho and it did back then too.

We aren't talking about the same thing.

You're talking about, if you heard the album you knew Jay was special. I'm saying, he was just another random ass rapper with an album out....he didn't even benefit from being "the next Rakim" like Nas. So people slept on the album. I knew one guy that had that album, and I was pretty indifferent to listening to it even after he recommended it to me. And even after I did listen to it....everyone else was the same way. You can't force people to listen to music if they're about it.

Fred.