Who was considered the Goat before MJ [edit : Poll Added]

[IllmaticDelta]

In the moment folk were saying Magic, casuals were saying Wilt, super old-heads were saying Russell, and people who actually paid attention to basketball said Kareem.

^^this and I would add jerry west and oscar....I remember old heads even in the 90s saying those 2 were the GOATS

 

[Jplaya2023]

In 1980 the players voted bill russell. But honestly it was kareem when he retired after 89

 

[Rekkapryde]

Earv still the goat. fukk all dat. Had to battle the 76ers, Celts, and Pistons for titles.

 

[10bandz]

Before Jordan deaded the argument with the 2nd 3peat, it was almost universally thought of as Wilt.

Bird & Magic kind of cancelled each other out. They had their supporters, but they were partisans

Kareem was carried by Magic to most of his chips, even winning in '80s without Kareem. Plus, Kareem was disliked by the media.

Oscar Robertson was another guy who would get some traction.

So, being an NBA obsessive in say 1996, which I was, I'd see a lot of Jordan vs. Wilt or Jordan vs. Oscar arguments on ESPN, in magazines, etc. . .

It's crazy how Wilt & Oscar have been completely written out of the argument without even doing anything.

This is false

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

Before Jordan deaded the argument with the 2nd 3peat, it was almost universally thought of as Wilt.

Bird & Magic kind of cancelled each other out. They had their supporters, but they were partisans

Kareem was carried by Magic to most of his chips, even winning in '80s without Kareem. Plus, Kareem was disliked by the media.

Oscar Robertson was another guy who would get some traction.

So, being an NBA obsessive in say 1996, which I was, I'd see a lot of Jordan vs. Wilt or Jordan vs. Oscar arguments on ESPN, in magazines, etc. . .

It's crazy how Wilt & Oscar have been completely written out of the argument without even doing anything.

And his teammates.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

^^this and I would add jerry west and oscar....I remember old heads even in the 90s saying those 2 were the GOATS

old heads in the 90s on west




old heads in the 90s on oscar

 

[murksiderock]

Bird was better than Magic. There, I said it

Bro I actually have always believed this. Since I started studying the history of the game years ago, I was led to believe this. My hunch is that Magic is somewhat overrated, but I won't say so definitively because I didn't see him play (unlike people like Wade or Carter who I did say, I'm 100% confident in saying that)...

Magic wouldn't be the first overrated star player. There are several guys I'm fortunate enough to have seen in 21 years that are overrated and overstated, starting with the current typical talk about Kawhi, and going backwards....of course I do believe Magic is an All-Timer, gotta state that for the dummies in here who will think me believing he's overrated means I'm calling him a bum lol...

I've come to believe he and Bird were more or less equals, depending on what you value, all things considered. But I will never believe that Magic Man was clearly this much greater player than Bird, never bought into it!

Before Jordan deaded the argument with the 2nd 3peat, it was almost universally thought of as Wilt.

Bird & Magic kind of cancelled each other out. They had their supporters, but they were partisans

Kareem was carried by Magic to most of his chips, even winning in '80s without Kareem. Plus, Kareem was disliked by the media.

Oscar Robertson was another guy who would get some traction.

So, being an NBA obsessive in say 1996, which I was, I'd see a lot of Jordan vs. Wilt or Jordan vs. Oscar arguments on ESPN, in magazines, etc. . .

It's crazy how Wilt & Oscar have been completely written out of the argument without even doing anything.

I think you make a lot of great points here...

In my estimation from older cats I was around, there was never a consensus before Mike. All these guys names were in the ring, but also the "consensus" for Mike didn't apply to that age group either----->there is a clear generational bias to calling Mike #1. The guys/girls old enough to remember GOATs before Mike, tend to still not be swayed by Mike, for the most part...

So when people push this "consensus" for Mike, they gotta understand the generational bias and push he got to achieve that consensus...

You make a strong point about Cap and I'll say this too, while I believe he's Top 5, when I've been around OGs he wasn't the main guy they speak of as GOAT, which I always took as an indication that folks that saw him in his prime understood or recognized his shortcomings and limitations in real time...

That kinda circles back to me as a reminder that the oldest people on this board were born in the early to mid 70s at most. This is a young community of fans, WE vote Kareem in a fashion as potentially #1, but the oldest posters on here almost unanimously never saw Cap without Magic next to him. The prism that you view players tends to be different, just from what I've seen, when talking to fans who remember him before he was carried to all those rings---->not that he wasn't always great, obviously. But those people got a different depth of perception in comparison to the youngsters on this board...

I don't think Wilt and Oscar have been written out so much as other GOATs have emerged in the 45-50 years those guys have been retired. I guess to a degree I get what you're saying, and posters on here know I've been saying this since long before Kobe passed---->the narrative about Kobe began changing on multiple levels the moment he announced 2015-16 would be his last year. He isn't the only guy this has happened to, and I think Jordan has been the biggest beneficiary of narrative shaping than any American athlete ever, but Kobe, while always rightfully known as an All-Time great player, the Top 5 level of debate has really come in his retirement, people generally weren't saying he was Top 5 ever when he played, even though we all viewed him as a legend...

So to your point, Wilt and Oscar and probably others like West too, have fallen victim to the hot take recency bias the NBA is known for more than other major leagues. Even with that said, it isn't crazy to think a number of guys coulda passed them up, those guys have been gone for a LONG time!

 

[murksiderock]

old heads in the 90s on west




old heads in the 90s on oscar

Further highlighting what I and a few others have said on here many times before:

There is no "one" GOAT in any team sports!

Too many factors come into play and GOATs from separate eras don't get to compete against each other. The consensus for Mike is a generational thing, guys older than Mike tyoically don't agree that he's the undisputed GOAT, he's just one of the names in the hat, and I've noticed via my younger relatives (and you can see evidence of this with young players like Trae or Lonzo), cats who were born in the late-90s and after, basically fans who are all currently younger than 23, for the most part that balance is returning----->they know Mike's legend and respect it but he's not garnering automatic best ever status...

He's just one of the names in the hat...

 

[MJ Truth]

Bird should be an option on the poll

 

[GOAT]

Peak for peak, Bird beats Magic quite handily. People rave about 50/40/90, Bird had a FOUR year stretch where he averaged 28/10/7 on over 50/40/90. His scoring efficiency was insane and he was such an underrated passer/playmaker. People acting like Magic is clearly ahead of him is such revisionist history.

 

[Mad Good Dro]

Without googling, who did kareem win his 3 titles against? What centers did he go against in those games? Did they even get drafted? I studied his collegiate career.

Decorated collegiate career? Sure. Perfect considered his competition? Na. Perfect timing? Yes.

So When bron stans bring up jordan beating weak one man army squads and old nikkas in the finals it doesn’t hurt his nba goat argument, but Kareem beating scrubs in college does? You mj stans are pathetic

 

[murksiderock]

You mj stans are pathetic

The worst...

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

So When bron stans bring up jordan beating weak one man army squads and old nikkas in the finals it doesn’t hurt his nba goat argument, but Kareem beating scrubs in college does? You mj stans are pathetic

I love when dumbass posters think they got a point.

How about you list the nba hall of famers Jordan beat in the finals.

Then list the players that kareem beat who got drafted into the nba.

 

[Mad Good Dro]

I love when dumbass posters think they got a point.

How about you list the nba hall of famers Jordan beat in the finals.

Then list the players that kareem beat who got drafted into the nba.

You’re the only dumbass arguing that a nikka that 1 won chip as a role player then got upset every year after as the main man is the goat over a nikka that won 3 straight chips and player of the year awards.

If you want to argue Kareem played bums that’s fine. Just don’t cry when nikkas bring up mj playing in a weak expansion era and beating the likes of old ass magic and Malone and Clyde Drexler and in the finals

Charles Barkley was the only top 30 talent in his prime that mj beat. And even then it was Charles Barkley kJ and roleplayers.

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

You’re the only dumbass arguing that a nikka that 1 won chip as a role player then got upset every year after as the main man is the goat over a nikka that won 3 straight chips and player of the year awards.

If you want to argue Kareem played bums that’s fine. Just don’t cry when nikkas bring up mj playing in a weak expansion era and beating the likes of old ass magic and Malone and Clyde Drexler and in the finals

Charles Barkley was the only top 30 talent in his prime that mj beat. And even then it was Charles Barkley kJ and roleplayers.

All this and no comparative list. Move along.